COINS - the other lawful money

[Noah]

I imagine we're all in agreement here that U.S. coins are lawful money. They don't say "Federal Reserve" on them. But coins don't get much attention these days. Probably because of their low face value, and that the coins issued for circulation are intrinsically about worthless. Coinflation has a United States Circulating Coinage Intrinsic Value Table showing that, in terms of metal, circulating coinage contains as little as 6.64% of its face value (the dollar coin).

While I do collect coins, I don't bother much with those circulating copper sandwich "clads" or slugs. I prefer the silver and gold coins.

And while I do redeem checks into lawful money (thank you David Merrill), both cash and circulating coinage suffer loss along with FRNs from something known as INFLATION. It's becoming widely known that the official BLS inflation numbers (CPI) are bogus. John Williams of ShadowStats shows that using the government's own 1980 formula, the inflation rate last year was 10.7 percent. And with all the recent borrowing & printing, I dare say that's likely to get worse, possibly even reaching hyperinflation levels.

And here is Ron Paul on 2/29 telling Bernanke he's destroyed the value of paper money:
http://survivalandprosperity.com/201...f-paper-money/

"I have a silver ounce here," said Paul, holding up a silver coin. "This ounce of silver back in 2006 would buy over four gallons of gasoline. Today it'll buy almost eleven gallons of gasoline. That's preservation of value." Paul added that inflation amounted to "stealing wealth". "If you loaned me a hundred Dollars and two years from now I gave you ninety back you'd be pretty upset," Paul told Bernanke. "It's theft. If I don't give you your full hundred dollars back...I'm stealing ten dollars from you. Somebody's stealing wealth, and this is very upsetting."

Americans on fixed incomes, Paul said, are "really hurting" as a result of rising prices. "Their inflation rate is very much higher than the government tries to tell them," he said. "This argument that prices are going up about 2%, nobody believes it." Silver, Paul said, "is what the market has always said should be money", rather than so-called fiat currencies such as the Dollar. "What you've done in the last six years is destroy the value of paper money," Paul told Bernanke. "At the same time real money is preserved."

Paul has long advocated precious metals playing a role in the monetary system, having served on the US Gold Commission which reported in 1982. His minority report arguing for a return to gold was later published as The Case for Gold.

In questioning Bernanke this week, Paul went on to ask whether the government should allow different currencies "to run parallel" in the United States. "They do around the world...Why wouldn't we legalize competing currencies?" asked Paul. "Why can't people put this in a mattress?" he asked, holding up a silver coin, "and get four, five times as much of the value in a few years?"

"Nobody prevents you from holding silver or gold if you want to," Bernanke replied. "It's perfectly legal to do that. It's also perfectly fine to hold other currencies."

Paul however replied that this is "nothing near real money", since there are hurdles to the ownership of silver coins. "That's not money when you pay taxes to buy a coin or you have capital gains tax," Paul said. "If you have to settle a lawsuit it's always settled in depreciating Federal Reserve notes, it's never settled in the real contract."

U.S. silver & gold coins of 90% or more fineness, don't suffer this inflation loss. These coins were our nation's first money, Constitutional money. Furthermore they meet the full definition of money - a medium of exchange AND a store of value. That's why I consider them real money. Although that should be qualified - as long as you're trading with someone recognizing the FULL metal value of the coin, not the face value.

[shikamaru]

Money, in the past, referred to only gold, silver, or copper specie.

[Noah]

Exactly. As a type of lawful money that does not depreciate along with the electronic/paper lawful money in my bank account/wallet, I think we shall witness a renewed interest in solid coins. Of all the precious metals pundits, I enjoy Ranting Andy Hoffman the most. As a former Wall St. analyst he doesn't hold back. They come in daily emails but they're also archived here, on the left:

http://blog.milesfranklin.com/catego...andrew-hoffman

Tuesday Afternoon Wrap-Up 3/13/2012
Andrew Hoffman

Wow, Wow, WOW!

The Cartel is not only working me like a dog, but making me look like a genius! They may think they have the upper hand, but in reality are losing more of their advantage each day, with the law of DIMINISHING RETURNS working against them like a stiff headwind. That's not to say they are not inflicting pain, but the financial system is deteriorating at an exponential pace, and thus PHYSICAL gold and silver will NOT be denied their destiny.

[.....]

But I digress from the main issue; the all-out Cartel WAR that has now gone thermonuclear. Based on what we have seen in recent months - particularly on days like today - a child could read my RANTS, watch the markets for a day or two, and get it. I was being facetious in calling myself a genius earlier, as it truly take a child's intellect to understand the game at this point.

The real issue is overcoming four decades of BRAINWASHING that the dollar is "money" and gold a "barbarous relic," as the heightening PROPAGANDA campaign to enable "extension of the pretension" has reached spiritual levels. I fully understand that the vast majority of the U.S. population is too poor to PROTECT THEMSELVES, even if they wanted to - and thus are more likely to listen to messages of hope than doom. However, when all is said and done, dozens of books will be written on humanity's hubris, prone to cognitive dissonance to the point of self-immolation. If there is anyone left that doesn't understand my passion for this fight, and commitment to leading the effort to disseminate TRUTH, consider that it took me 45 minutes to find the perfect clip to describe my view of America's unwashed masses.

This scene, from the brilliant TV miniseries based on Stephen King's novel Storm of the Century, depicts an entire village mindlessly walking into the sea, without a fight or a trace. Start from time stamp 3:00, and the clip is less than a minute long. Great movie, by the way, for those interested in Stephen King.

Storm of the Century - Dream Scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j5vKgCqIH4

____________________________________________
There is a great flood coming.

[David Merrill]

Thank you Noah!

[martin earl]

Noah! The coins you describe are the only actual law of the land lawful money. At the very least, the currently issued coins will not float in water. I love how YESHUA had the temple tax paid for with coins redeemed from the sea, a perfect example of non-floating lawful money and redemption from maritime jurisdiction.

YESHUA walking on the water (and His calming of the storm at sea) was also very telling to those with eyes to see what it means. Add the 'sinking' after he walked on the water and we get a foreshadowing of his reliance later on his Roman Citizenship when times got tough, but, YESHUA pulled him from the waves then too?

[Treefarmer]

Noah! The coins you describe are the only actual law of the land lawful money. At the very least, the currently issued coins will not float in water. I love how YESHUA had the temple tax paid for with coins redeemed from the sea, a perfect example of non-floating lawful money and redemption from maritime jurisdiction.

YESHUA walking on the water (and His calming of the storm at sea) was also very telling to those with eyes to see what it means. Add the 'sinking' after he walked on the water and we get a foreshadowing of his reliance later on his Roman Citizenship when times got tough, but, YESHUA pulled him from the waves then too?

Are you saying that Jesus sank or are you referring to Peter's sinking?
I doubt that Peter had Roman citizenship.

[David Merrill]

That would have been Paul.

Here it is from the 1560 Geneva Bible.

I think the confusion might be that in The Nazarene Gospel Restored Peter and Jesus come south from Damascus and confront Shaul (Paul) as he was headed north. Peter found out that Paul wanted an in (marriage) to the Temple Mount gang by capturing Jesus. Peter ran ahead of Paul to alert Jesus.

[Noah]

Interesting; I should find that book. I'm wondering if there's much interest in an online database of such gold & silver coins? While just a subset of all coinage, the United States Mint has produced and still mints a huge variety and volume of such real money coins.



1932 Washington Quarter (1932-1964)
KM# 164
6.25 grams
.900 silver
.18084 oz. pure silver (ASW)
Diameter: 24.3 mm
Mintage: 5,404,000
Mint: Philadelphia
Designer: John Flanagan

[shikamaru]

Exactly. As a type of lawful money that does not depreciate ....

Money (specie) is still subject to the laws of supply and demand.
Money can and does fluctuate in supply due to various conditions such as large new influx of silver coins or large outflows of gold coin.

Given supply or demand, that type of specie will either become more plentiful or scarce for that monetary supply. As scarcity increases, expect Gresham's Law to occur.

Also, don't discount a government's ability to debase its coinage.

[Noah]

OK the fluctuation due to natural market forces, supply & demand, doesn't faze me. And the first two centuries of our nations founding, when we used silver & gold as money, saw very little inflation or fluctuation. I once saw a graph of this; was virtually a flat line until central banking came along. It's the other type of depreciation that bothers me.

Yes, I'm thinking a database of the NON-debased coins, shikamaru.

BTW, I scored a copy: