"Redeeming" Credit

[David Merrill]

Today I sent to my brokerage firm the check I have been holding onto.

On the back it has
Deposit for credit on account
to be redeemed in lawful money
USCA12 section 411
above my signature.

Everything will go smoothly I bet. Thanks for letting us know.

Lawful;

Thank you too.

[Chex]

(a) In this section?
(1) ?gold clause? means a provision in or related to an obligation alleging to give the obligee a right to require payment in?
(A) gold;
(B) a particular United States coin or currency; or
(C) United States money measured in gold or a particular United States coin or currency.

(2) ?public debt obligation? means a domestic obligation issued or guaranteed by the United States Government to repay money or interest.
(b) The United States Government may not pay out any gold coin. A person lawfully holding United States coins and currency may present the coins and currency to the Secretary of the Treasury for exchange (dollar for dollar) for other United States coins and currency (other than gold and silver coins) that may be lawfully held. The Secretary shall make the exchange under regulations prescribed by the Secretary.

(c)
(1) The Government withdraws its consent given to anyone to assert against the Government, its agencies, or its officers, employees, or agents, a claim?
(A) on a gold clause public debt obligation or interest on the obligation;
(B) for United States coins or currency; or
(C) arising out of the surrender, requisition, seizure, or acquisition of United States coins or currency, gold, or silver involving the effect or validity of a change in the metallic content of the dollar or in a regulation about the value of money.

(2) Paragraph (1) of this subsection does not apply to a proceeding in which no claim is made for payment or credit in an amount greater than the face or nominal value in dollars of public debt obligations or United States coins or currency involved in the proceeding.

(3) Except when consent is not withdrawn under this subsection, an amount appropriated for payment on public debt obligations and for United States coins and currency may be expended only dollar for dollar.

(d)
(1) In this subsection, ?obligation? means any obligation (except United States currency) payable in United States money.
(2) An obligation issued containing a gold clause or governed by a gold clause is discharged on payment (dollar for dollar) in United States coin or currency that is legal tender at the time of payment. This paragraph does not apply to an obligation issued after October 27, 1977.

[American_National]

When it comes to credit card use, I have never received any paperwork (1099's) for my credit cards. I have one with the bank I currently use and they send me a 1099 for the interest I made on my interest bearing account (all of 2 dollars) nothing to do with the ccard. Just my experience.

As food for thought and a sanity check in regards to the above mentioned scenario . . . When one places their demand for Lawful Money of Exchange in all transactions within the cognizance of the federal reserve districts, cities, and their resultant service area member financial institutions who handle their FRN's - wouldn't the regulation below apply in any token interest amounts generated by one keeping a "regular deposit of lawful money as the credit of identical money to account only" on hand and available within one's checking account established at a local financial institution?

Per 31 USC 3124
(a)Stocks and obligations of the United States Government are exempt from taxation by a State or political subdivision of a State. The exemption applies to each form of taxation that would require the obligation, the interest on the obligation, or both, to be considered in computing a tax, except -

(1) a nondiscriminatory franchise tax or another nonproperty tax instead of a franchise tax, imposed on a corporation; and

(2) an estate or inheritance tax.

I have been pondering this over most of the weekend . . .

If one is not among the list of PERSONS who are classified as being:

1. A (federal) State (not a foreign state) chartered corporation who has a nondiscriminatory franchise/non-property tax imposed on it's commercial activities.
2. A U.S. PERSON owning an estate generating token-interest income from a taxable source, or;
3. One who acts in filling the role as a fiduciary for a DECEASED U.S. PERSON's estate presently generating token-interest income from a taxable source.
4. A qualified heir to a deceased U.S. PERSON's estate that benefits from generated token-interest income from a taxable source.

Then wouldn't 31 USC 3124 make any resultant token-interest amounts generated by one's use of Lawful Public Money of Exchange exempt from any extra-Constitutional taxation, as such amounts physically received would originate from an income source not taxable by the federal "United States"? (such interest would be lawful money as well per one's prior Notice and Demand)

Also;

26 CFR 1.312-6(b) "Earnings and Profits" plainly speaks of THREE different types of income:

1) "all income exempted by statute";
2) "income not taxable by the Federal Government under the Constitution";
3) "income which is "includible in gross income under section 61."

And further . . .

"The United States Government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state." [N.Y. v. re Merriam 36 N.E. 505; 141 N.Y. 479; affirmed 16 S.Ct. 1073; 41 L. Ed. 287] [underlines added]

28 U.S.C 3002 (15) (A-C) defines "United States" as
(A) A federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of (a federal corporation d.b.a.) the "United States"; or
(C) an instrumentality of (a federal corporation d.b.a.) the "United States".

Thoughts? Suggestions? Counter-points?

[Rock Anthony]

Update - "Redeeming Credit" confirmed. On December 18, 2011 a charge was placed for $22.16. I didn't notice this before but there was already a $0.10 credit balance from my prior payment that also had my demand stamped on it. The resulting balance due was $22.06 which was paid via PMO on or after January 5, 2012 for the same amount. On the coupon I stamped "DEPOSITED FOR CREDIT ON ACCOUNT OR REDEEMED IN LAWFUL MONEY PER TITLE 12 U.S.C. 411" in red letters.

On the new statement I recently received the Previous balance shows "$0.00" but shows Other Credits as "5.00." Under New Balance it shows "$5.00-"

Go figure. Definitely something interesting there.

I'm probably drawing at straws here, but Gold stock is valued at $42.22 per fine troy ounce. If you double the amount of the charge, $22.16, and then deduct that earlier $0.10 credit, you get $42.22. Coincidence?

[David Merrill]

Good eye, Rock!

That is very interesting indeed.

[freedave]

Everything will go smoothly I bet. Thanks for letting us know.

Lawful;

Thank you too.

Hello David,

I just saw your response.

The check now shows online as being credited to my account.

I also sent out another one a few days ago -- I added "without prejudice" above the signature.

I forgot to make a copy of the front and back like I did for the first one, but I have another one ready to go, with copy already made, when I see that the second one has cleared

[David Merrill]

I have never credited much to "without prejudice". Especially since you are handling financial instruments. "Without Recourse" makes more sense to me, but I never handle anything but cash so I sign very little.

[freedave]

I have never credited much to "without prejudice". Especially since you are handling financial instruments. "Without Recourse" makes more sense to me, but I never handle anything but cash so I sign very little.

OK, would adding "Without Recourse" provide any additional advantage?

[David Merrill]

I don't think so. If you are redeeming lawful money then the obligations are set out by the signatures.

[freedave]

I don't think so. If you are redeeming lawful money then the obligations are set out by the signatures.

Thank you, David.

My second check has cleared, a third is ready to be mailed...