"Redeeming" Credit

[Freed Gerdes]

What about just using a Debit Card? No credit is involved: your account (which hopefully contains lawful money which you previously redeemed into it by demand) is immediately debited the full amount. This cannot be construed as 'use' of fed credit, as the transaction is completed immediately, with lawful money.

Freed Gerdes

[David Merrill]

What about just using a Debit Card? No credit is involved: your account (which hopefully contains lawful money which you previously redeemed into it by demand) is immediately debited the full amount. This cannot be construed as 'use' of fed credit, as the transaction is completed immediately, with lawful money.

Freed Gerdes

Very true. However a lot of times you will be conditioned to bill yourself; as in bill of indictment. Did you give any billing information with your debit card?

I can buy a debit card for $200 for example. But when I make a purchase on PayPal or otherwise on the Internet I have to "activate" the card and they want my SSN. I do not have a SSN so that starts to kluge up the process for them, not me. I explain that I do not owe them any Information because it is already paid up in lawful money. I usually have to spend 40 minutes doing this until I get the ear of the attorney for VISA. I explain that the only obligations in the transaction are met by the Secretary and US Treasurer who have already signed the bills I paid down at Safeway - the $210 I tendered lawful money.

Do you start to understand Redemption?

It is difficult to see through the conditioning but it behooves you to take a moment and examine that a clear much more lucid description is held in the fact that VISA formed a new policy around my demand that they honor the bills without carrying any presumption I ever applied for their private credit. I must have to say ten times: It is a debit card, not a credit card!


So get the New David Merrill Policy:

I have six months to use up the entire $200 on the debit card. After that time I have to call VISA and spend a half hour to activate the card for the remainder of the day until midnight. If I fail to use the remainder of the value left on the card by then I get to do that again the next time I want to use the card.


One way to do this is to simply say, Use the shipping address. But the underlings are trained to get your endorsement, I need for you to give me the billing information.

David Merrill: I do not owe you any information.

And so it starts all over again...

I have many recordings of such calls. Maybe I will get one available for you here. I cringe listening to them myself because I have to behave like such a horse's ass while they cycle through their programmed loop over and over before they can hand me up to the manager, then the attorney...

Finally with an attorney he understands and politely clears me because I already paid in lawful money. I have to brace myself and have an hour on my hands with every new debit card.

I cannot recharge a debit card too. It has to be activated to recharge and my cards never get "activated". [That is a whole new mess because they already accept my cash before they realize that the Recharge didn't go through and try getting my Information for the Refund which takes the Store Manager while the Customer Service line backs up to the block the doors...] So it is a whole new experience every debit card and if I don't spend it all within six months the time-extensive David Merrill Policy kicks in for me to spend the remaining balance online so I usually spend the remainder at Checkout on groceries after making my online purchase, before midnight.


If you are patient enough you can lead an interesting and very edifying life around this issue. For a while though, it really did seem to be becoming my life. Now I like to keep a few friends in the system who don't mind at all making more purchases and bolstering their credit for an $8 lunch at Village Inn.

[Freed Gerdes]

I can see how the prepaid debit card can become a full-time distraction. However, I have a bank account, which will soon be holding only lawful money, and the debit card draws directly against that account. So, no FRN's, no debt obligations involved. The FRN's were redeemed before the account was funded. I also have a credit card with the same bank. I will try to get the bank to consider part of the deposited lawful money as funding the credit card, ie it becomes a defacto debit card. The difference is that many vendors will not take a debit card. I note the other commenters here concerned that use of a credit card assumes Federal Reserve credit, and that the IRS might want to come after the tax on its use. So far, IRCode identifies income, and sets the amount of tax on the amount of income. Use of a credit card cannot be construed as income under present IRS policy (could that change? - hell, yea), particularly if you pay it off in full when billed, as you will note that while the 'credit' begins with the date of purchase, charging you for the credit used does not begin until you establish an unpaid balance, ie, use is free if paid off in full when billed.

[David Merrill]

I can see how the prepaid debit card can become a full-time distraction. However, I have a bank account, which will soon be holding only lawful money, and the debit card draws directly against that account. So, no FRN's, no debt obligations involved. The FRN's were redeemed before the account was funded. I also have a credit card with the same bank. I will try to get the bank to consider part of the deposited lawful money as funding the credit card, ie it becomes a defacto debit card. The difference is that many vendors will not take a debit card. I note the other commenters here concerned that use of a credit card assumes Federal Reserve credit, and that the IRS might want to come after the tax on its use. So far, IRCode identifies income, and sets the amount of tax on the amount of income. Use of a credit card cannot be construed as income under present IRS policy (could that change? - hell, yea), particularly if you pay it off in full when billed, as you will note that while the 'credit' begins with the date of purchase, charging you for the credit used does not begin until you establish an unpaid balance, ie, use is free if paid off in full when billed.

You sound very informed.

You present some "facts" though, that I am unsure about.

I am unaware that venders will not accept debit cards. Don't you run a debit card like a credit card? It seems that a debit card is an immediate guaranteed transfer of funds.

Also when you give billing information you indict yourself. So the credit card is the situation where you must provide the billing information, not the debit card. I went through a drama with T-Mobile (keyword for a search around here) and revealed by deduction how they wanted Information and finally relented to getting none. - Possibly they even came up with the Pre-Paid Plan I am now on just for me.

I sure like the way you have tied lawful money demand into the credit system!

[Moxie]

Very true. However a lot of times you will be conditioned to bill yourself; as in bill of indictment. Did you give any billing information with your debit card?

Hi,

Just wondering if a solution would be to create a business name to use with the billing address so the fiction takes the heat and not the living soul. Would that work?

[Moxie]

I can buy a debit card for $200 for example. But when I make a purchase on PayPal or otherwise on the Internet I have to "activate" the card and they want my SSN.

You're talking about those reloadable debit cards, right? The ones sold on the kiosk along with the gift cards? The Visa Vanilla card does not require a SS# in order to activate it to use on the internet. The activation process only asks for a zip.

However, if one wants to reload that same card or make recurring payments with that card, they want a SS#. Perhaps one can put all 9's or 0's if one doesn't have a SS#?

[David Merrill]

You're talking about those reloadable debit cards, right? The ones sold on the kiosk along with the gift cards? The Visa Vanilla card does not require a SS# in order to activate it to use on the internet. The activation process only asks for a zip.

However, if one wants to reload that same card or make recurring payments with that card, they want a SS#. Perhaps one can put all 9's or 0's if one doesn't have a SS#?

Yep. Thanks for the tip. I might try one of the Vanilla cards!

I believe that there are some of the audio files attached around here. The most annoying part is getting through the lower phone operators to an attorney who realizes it is a debit card - I do not owe anything at all - not even a ZIP code. That takes about 45 minutes typically.



P.S. When I buy it, I will ask the store what the ZIP code is there and use that.

[amosfella]

I've been redeeming lawful money with one non-endorsement or another since 2007. I've had credit cards since 2005. Now, I've paid them off immediately as a rule. Then I needed to carry a balance for my then GF to have a lawyer. She was too scared to do anything in the court without a lawyer.... Anyways, I'm still paying that off. However, I'm not insolvent. I can pay it. Note to self, don't be a borrower to be a lender.......... It was stupid...

Some of the places I deal with will only take credit cards for orders. Something about they get insurance if there's fraud, whereas debit purchases, etc offer no protection to them... Maybe it's different in Canada than the US. I do a lot of mail order to buy hard to find parts, bulk group orders, etc. I also have a lot of wholesale accounts, and all except one demand credit card payments, unless picked up in person... I'm not about to drive 3 12 hour days to get something I can ship for $50. I asked about money orders or postal money orders, and they refused those as well saying that those could be sent with fraud... A lot of my orders to the US require a credit card to verify shipping address.... In this regard, I'm not just paying bills for cell service and internet, it's trying to maintain my life, and as these things are not at all available locally, I have to look further.....

I see the credit card as being an agent that you are directing for you to do things in the person's name... If it's paid with lawful money, I don't believe that a taxable event has been created... Maybe I should start depositing the coupons at the bottom of the statement With the lawful money stamp affixed, and signed as certified.

I'm just thinking in the echo chamber.

[David Merrill]

Note to self, don't be a borrower to be a lender...

Thanks for that!



You make me think; I like that.

The credit card as a trust person (agent)...

I find it convoluted in the world of credit card and identity theft that companies are finding credit cards more secure? ANSWER: It is an insurance scam.

It is a direct reflection of what I call The Convolution. My BoE convolutes The Convolution.

You reveal a credit generating machine based in theft. You pay off the credit with lawful money demanded but it is absorbed back into the system as credit currency. I say that Congress renaming US notes to US currency notes is the real problem of honesty, not you. However I might insist on more honest currency, at least a little bit.

[allodial]

I find it convoluted in the world of credit card and identity theft that companies are finding credit cards more secure? ANSWER: It is an insurance scam.

Having a name and an SSN associated with the card allows them at least to develop the card as an unsecured (i.e. secured by no particular thing but but everything of the person) credit card as if they actually lent something. It seems rather silly to ask for SSN's and other information for prepaid debit cards when the FRNs in the system are already underwritten by assets.It might also be helpful to consider that the notion of separation between the world of bankers and that of actuaries might only be mythical and misleading. Actuaries might be "king" rather than serf.

However I might insist on more honest currency, at least a little bit.

Perhaps through knowledge and application of knowledge we have the power to make that happen with or without Congress.