Writings of Russell and Colin STANDISH

[allodial]

Well what might not be well-known are writings about Nero having inflicted himself with a deadly wound and that such said to have been covered by the Roman State for the most part lest it be identified with "the beast". He was believed dead but yet still lived. During the 66 to 70 AD period, there was a requirement to have a "mark" in order to buy or sell--those who were trapped Jerusalem and who hadn't fleed. Is there actually any legitimate prophecy that says all that happened in Jerusalem during that period was to happen again thousands of years later? Where is there any prophecy about the physical temple at Jerusalem being rebuilt? Why would it be when the temple made without hands is in effect?

Not to mention the accounts of statutes of Caesar being set up in "every city and temple" two thousand or so years ago and having those beheaded who would not worship the statues.

Far, far more important IMHO: as for the kingdom of God or kingdom of Christ is such not already current right now? And hasn't it been since at least 33 AD (keyword: coronation).

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49) AFTER THE RESURRECTION

Is followed by (April 33 AD):

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

How many folks are looking for the kingdom with their physical eyes? Yet still how many are looking to build it with hands?

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come

The word "set" there means to confer a kingdom rather than merely "Well done here's a comfy chair have a seat!". 'kathizo' means to CONFER A KINGDOM. This would have ocurred circa 33 CE/AD. The resurrection was followed by ascension which was perhaps followed by the conferring of a kingdom which followed by was the Promised Enduement (see above Luke 24:49) 'with power from on high'. Someone I know of did a great set of charts on this and gave it to a seminary or bible college and they were gotten rid of.

ONCE HE WAS CONFERRED THE KINGDOM HE PASSED IT ON!!!!

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

What crown do you figure He was referring to at Revelations 3:11? If there was a crown to hold fast to them perhaps there was and is kingdom to go with it?

Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things?

Consider how many people think a house to only be a brick building rather than the living husband, wife and children that comprise the household? How many think the "church building" to be "the church" itself?

[Treefarmer]

"And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."
Ephesians 1:19-23

We are still "in this world".
I believe that "that [world] which is to come" is coming very quickly now, as the last of the Bible prophecies are fulfilling fast before us.
Of course I cannot prove that.

Hindsight is 20/20, so everyone will just have to wait and see

[allodial]

We are still "in this world".
I believe that "that [world] which is to come" is coming very quickly now, as the last of the Bible prophecies are fulfilling fast before us.
Of course I cannot prove that.

Hindsight is 20/20, so everyone will just have to wait and see

Perhaps. However there are those that suggest the meaning of the word 'world' is worth lengthy study.

[Frederick Burrell]

Perhaps revelations represents an inward journey we must all take on the road to redemption.

Interesting post tree farmer. Just as the catholic church seemed to loosing its dominance in the US, we are experiencing an influx of catholic dominated immigrants. Perhaps behind the scenes one could imagine the hand of the church in metering out to a people who rejected the church and is now getting its just due, in form of financial catastrophe. Hmm interesting concept, to say the least. The question would seem to be who else is the catholic church in bed with to accomplish their ends.

The other thing I find amazing in light of all the things that the catholic church has under taken to remain and broaden it control, is it not the very body which brings to us our current version of the bible and the books it contains. hmmmm Makes one wonder what motivation they had for their choices, I'm sure of one thing it was not for the promotion of the truth. fB

[allodial]

Well there was someone that related this: a point in getting people to worship statues, icons or other physical artifacts was for collecting a kind energy not so well known outside certain circles. Relevantly, it was said that after the resurrection of Jesus, oracles around Rome stopped working. Hmmm wonder why.



P.S. Simon Magus was apparently referred to by some as "the Christ". The painting illustrates an alleged competition between Simon Magus and Peter whereby after prayer Simon Magus fell when the power supporting him ceased and his feet shattered. It is said that his bones were found near Rome during the 1940s (ca. 1942)..with thee bones of his feet missing. Peters bones having been found near Jerusalem.

As Correnti continued to examine the bones one very curious factor leapt right out at him -- every part of the skeleton was represented EXCEPT FOR THE FEET! "Only THE FEET, from the ankles down, were ENTIRELY MISSING. Not a single one of the many small bones to be found in the human foot could be seen on the table" (The Bones of Saint Peter, p. 107). How curious! There has been little or no comment from the Catholic Church on this peculiarity of the graffiti wall cache. That these bones may have been lost because of their small size is no answer because many bones from the fingers of a similar size are present -- showing how much care and devotion was used with these relics.

As a reminder:

The pontifex maximus Scaevola thought it expedient that the people should be deceived in religion; and the learned Varro said plainly, that there are many truths, which it is useless for the vulgar to know; and many falsities which it is fit the people should not suppose are falsities. (Note: Vid Augustin. de civ. Dei, B. 4 [...].) Hence comes the adage "Mundus vult decipi, decipiatur ergo."

Perspectives.

P.S. #2 One of the most fundamental 'magic spells' is that of summoning. A related word is 'apparitor' (a lot like "apppear" or "appearance").

[Inhisimage]

AN ADVENTURE IN CONITIVE DISSONANCE

What is cognitive dissonance? Do Christians suffer cognitive dissonance? Is there an example of cognitive dissonance in the scriptures?

Let us begin by looking at the words ?cognitive dissonance?
? Cognitive ? A mental thing. Mentally aware
? Dissonance ? Not in harmony with. Is not ?resonance?.

We all hold ?core beliefs?, things which we have accepted as true. A body of knowledge in our minds we hold to be ?truth?. When new information comes along, we compare it to what we already know. If it agrees with our body of truth then, we like it, we agree with it, it resonates with what we know. Things are fine. But, if not, ??then we reject it???..?IF- we can.

Sometimes the truth cannot be rejected because it is ?self evident? and if it does not agree with what we already know, we suffer mental anguish. We suffer cognitive dissonance.

Perhaps this news story by Wray Herbert ?in the June 19, 2007 edition of Newsweek can help to illustrate:

?The Nuer and the Dinka tribes of southern Sudan share an unusual custom. Both of these cattle-herding societies remove several of their kids' permanent front teeth as soon as they sprout: two on the top and four to six on the bottom. It's a very painful procedure, done with a fish hook, and it leaves all tribe members with a distinctive slack-jawed look and speech impediments.
This practice probably started long ago, when tetanus was rampant in central Africa. Tetanus causes "lockjaw," but the tooth removal would have allowed children afflicted by this infectious disease to drink liquids even when their jaw muscles clamped shut. Although there has been no tetanus or lockjaw in the southern Sudan for ages, both the Nuer and the Dinka continue the custom of extracting the front teeth. Indeed, they believe the sunken jaw and lower lip are beautiful. People with front teeth, they say, look like jackals. Social psychologists Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson describe this odd custom in their new book, "Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me)," as an example of the psychological process known as cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is the extreme emotional discomfort we feel when two important beliefs, attitudes or perceptions collide. Humans cannot tolerate dissonance for long, so they ease the tension by making a change in belief or attitude?and justifying the change. In the case of the Nuer and Dinka, they "choose" to believe that the toothless look is aesthetically pleasing in order to justify the infliction of such trauma on their children.?

Do you know anyone like the Nuer and the Dinka? Someone who just can?t see how things really are? ?they in effect "choose" to believe that the toothless look is aesthetically pleasing? By use of this mental trick, they avoid the effect of cognitive dissonance.

What follows is an example from the Scriptures where truth caused an extreme episode of cognitive dissonance. These people had not developed a mental process to deal with it and the result was a violent reaction.

From Luke Chapter 4: verses 17-30;

?And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country. And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
But he passing through the midst of them went his way,?

Here we have a people that were presented with ?self evident truth?. Truth which they could not deny because it was right there in their own sacred writings! But, all along they had been taught that these stories were just an indication of the power of their God, the ?Jewish? God.
And, here was Christ, presenting this ?truth? to them. The truth that God took care of and healed people who WERE NOT Jews. And so you see the effect this bit of ?truth? had. It caused a significant event of ?cognitive dissonance?.

The rest of this article will give my Seventh Day Adventist friends the opportunity to personally experience cognitive dissonance. The depth of this experience will vary from one individual to another because; everyone has variations in their core beliefs.

Years ago the Adventist had a large Church and Health Institute at Battle Creek, Michigan and during this time, controversy had arisen regarding Sister White.
Sister White said God would help her provide an answer.
A.T. Jones and others took her at her word and wrote letters to her in which they listed their concerns which Sister White had said her God would help her to answer.
.
Let us read about the biblical Joseph?s God and contrast him with Sister Whites God.
We will also read excerpts from A. T. Jones letter to Sister White


The God(s) of Joseph and Sister White

Joseph's God
Joseph's God was dependable. He meant what he said. He carried through on his promise. Four hundred years did not diminish his promise. Your faith is increased when you read of this God?s faithfulness. Thousands of years later, bible writers would cite Joseph's relationship with his God as an example of faith.
Joseph's God never went back on his word. The following scriptures illustrate this relationship and example.

KJV Genesis 50:24-26
And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt.

KJV Exodus 12:40-41
Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt.

KJV Exodus 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

KJV Joshua 24:32 And the bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up out of Egypt, buried they in Shechem, in a parcel of ground which Jacob bought of the sons of Hamor the father of Shechem for an hundred pieces of silver: and it became the inheritance of the children of Joseph.

KJV Hebrews 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

[Inhisimage]

Part 2

Sister White's God
Sister White's god was different. When people did as he instructed. Followed his instructions to the letter, he changed his mind and did not do as he said. Instead he gave new instructions. Your faith is diminished when you read how this god could not be depended on to do what he said he would do. The following excerpts from A.T. Jones letter to Sister White reveals this.


Thus the whole case as your communication calling for the writing out of doubts and perplexities concerning your writings, as that case has been worked out, requires that we shall think of God things that are impossible.

Now please let me say a word on Gods behalf: In your communication of March 30th, 1906, calling upon certain men by name to place upon paper the statement of the difficulties that perplexed their minds, you wrote the following words:

"In the visions of the night ----- I was directed by the Lord to request them and any others who have perplexities and grievous things in their minds regarding the Testimonies that I have borne, to specify what their objections and criticisms are. The Lord will help me to answer these objections, and to make plain that which seems intricate.... Let it all be written out".

After having received in answer to that call what some brethren had honestly written, you wrote under date of June 3rd, 1906 the following words:

"I had a vision in which I was speaking before a large company, where many questions were asked concerning my work and writings. I was directed by a messenger from heaven not to take the burden of picking up and answering all the sayings and doubts that are being put into many minds."

Both of these communications profess to be as from God. As representing God, therefore, they present the impossible situation as to God, in truth, that God asked certain men by name that they put in writing a statement of all their difficulties, etc., with the promise of an answer, and then, after He got the statement, refused to answer.

I repeat, therefore, that as to God in truth, and to any mind that has ever received the revelation of God, that presents an impossible situation. For no person that knows God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent, can ever believe it possible of God that He would call men personally by name to Him, only that they should receive a slap in the face, or to be condemned.

Didn?t the Lord know what responses could be made to that call? Didn't He know what response might be made? Yea, didn't He know what responses would be made? Accordingly didn't He know before these statements were written, that there was to be no answer? And He knowing all that, then can anybody expect sensible Christian men ever to believe of God that He would deliberately resort to an unworthy trick of mere child's play with sober, well-meaning, manly men, believers, in His own Son?



Let us set these two statements of yours side by side:
March 30, 1906

"Recently in the visions of the night I stood in a large company of people .. I was directed by the Lord to request them and any others who have perplexities and grievous things in their minds regarding the Testimonies that I have borne, to specify what their objections and criticisms are. The Lord will help me to answer these objections, and to make plain that which seems intricate... Let it all be written out and submitted to those who desire to remove the Perplexities." June 3, 1906

"I had a vision in which I was speaking before a large company where many questions were asked concerning my works and writings. I was directed by a messenger from heaven not to take the burden of picking up and answering all the sayings and doubts that are being put into many minds."

Notice the dates! This particular God, Sister White's God, goes back on his word in 63 days!


Sister White, can you or anybody else believe it possible for any person who knows God or has respect for him to accept both these statements as coming from God? Can you or anybody else expect that Christian men will believe of God that He will act like that, or that He will treat men in any such way as that?
Can you or anybody else expect that Christian men will accept any view of inspiration that involves the holy, just and good God in any such a slim and unworthy trick as that? Are we to believe of God that he is such an underling and so irresponsible of himself, that He can be pledged to a thing that utterly fails? That He can be pledged and under pledged? That when under pledge He can be whiff led about, as the workings out, of this case show, so that His pledge shall be worse than nothing? And all this in order to be loyal to the Testimonies?"

Why, Sister White, to believe that and such as that, of God, the God of the Bible, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, would be nothing short of the utmost limit of irreverence.

The scriptures say circumstances may change, but the Word of the Lord does not change:
Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. (Psalm 119:152)

The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. (1 Peter 1:24,25)

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
(Hebrews 13:8)

Now lets look at Joseph's God as the God of the Hebrews, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The one who "so loved the world that he gave". Is not this God of the Hebrews our God also?

Look how the Hebrews believed in him, look at the demonstration of faith of Jeremiah, when the Hebrews were being taken to Babylon serve the seventy years in captivity. See how he is so sure God will do what he says that he goes and buys land! He wants to reassure others, this God can be trusted

Look at Daniel, he knows from the study of the prophet of this God that it is time for the Hebrews to leave Babylon and return because ?God had said so?

Now compare this to what Sister White's god did on the matter of the reform dress

"God would not have his people adopt the so-called reform dress. It is immodest apparel, wholly unfitted for the modest, humble followers of Christ. . . Those who feel called out to join the movement in favor of woman's rights and the so-called dress reform, might as well sever all connection with the third angel's message. . . Let them adopt this costume, and their influence is dead. . . They [the sisters] would destroy their influence and that of their husbands. They would become a byword and a derision. . . God would not have us take a course to lessen or destroy our influence with the world" (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. I., pp. 421, 422).

Notice that she gives God as her authority here. "God would not have his people adopt the so-called reform dress." That was God's mind at that date
This was in 1863, and was clear and emphatic. But one year later, September, 1864, Elder and Mrs. White spent three weeks at Dr. Jackson's Health Home at Dansville, N.Y. It was here her God changed his mind about the dress. Listen to Sister White's God now!
"God would now have his people adopt the Reform Dress, not only to distinguish them from the world as his peculiar people, but because a reform in dress is essential to physical and mental health" (p. 525).
Here, again, she gives God as her authority for the new departure in dress. This dress was to be adopted by sisters, not only for health, but to distinguish them from the world as God's peculiar people. She quotes Num. 15:38-41, where God directed the Israelites to wear a "ribbon of blue" on their garments to distinguish them from the other nations.

Put the statements side by side and you have:


1863 NO 1864 YES
"God would not have his people adopt the so-called reform dress.
(Testimonies for the Church, Vol. I., pp. 421, 422).
"God would now have his people adopt the Reform Dress,
(Testimonies for the Church, Vol. I., pp. 525).

Are you suffering cognitive dissonance like those people in the synagogue did that day?
Do you want to throw someone down the brow of a hill?

And, what does the Scripture say?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

And what say you? Does this scripture apply? EVEN to Sister White?

Did God just change his mind, or did God lie ?or- did Sister White lie?
Did Sister White worship a different god?

If this has caused you to experience cognitive dissonance, how will you deal with it? Will you be able to develop some sort of mental trick, or mental process, such as the Nuer and the Dinka did regarding the pulling their children?s teeth, thus enabling them to avoid the unpleasantness of cognitive dissonance. If you are successful, oh please share it!

[Treefarmer]

Inhisimage, I must admit that I completely fail to see how your commentary relates to the thread topic or the OP.

As to the content of your post:
the gist of it appears to be a partial rehash of some slanderous accusations which were published during the first half of the twentieth century by people seeking to disparage the writings and character of Ellen G. WHITE, and by extension the Seventh Day Adventist church and its members.

These accusations, plus a host of others, have been well documented and have been exposed as the libelous misrepresentations and lies that they are.
Volumes have been published on this matter, the most well-known of them probably being Francis D. NICHOL's book Ellen G. White And Her Critics.

The dress reform accusation is discussed here, and the matter about whether or not questions concerning testimonies had been answered by E.G. WHITE is documented here.

I sincerely hope that this will help to clear up the cognitive dissonance that you may have experienced.

Bright blessings

[Inhisimage]

Farmer, I understood the topic to be "religious history in America" of which Russel and Colin Standish are a part as well as the foolishness propergated by the SDA Church. The so called "church" is actually a 30 billion dollar cooperation which spends tithe money to employ "Catholic" lawyers to defend it's "trade mark".
And no, by the way, the "eating of pork" has not produced Leprosy, contrary to what the favorite author of many people has stated.

Your answer to my post is no answer at all. Do a little research Farmer, The God Man's name was not "Jesus". Could not have been, as there was no "J" in the English alphabet in the year 1611. He was named after the one who "fathered" him. A being whose named remained completely unknown to Sister White, through out her entire life, in spite of her and her church's claim of a special relationship to him.

Get a new horse to ride Farmer. The one you are on is so lame, you can see his limp a mile away.

[Treefarmer]

Inhisimage, the topic of my thread is "Writings of Russell and Colin STANDISH".
I started the thread in the "Religious History in America" category, because that's where it belongs, as you have also recognized.

So if you have something to say about the writings of Russell and Colin STANDISH, then this thread is wide open to you and you are welcome to do so.

If however you have an axe to grind with the writings of E.G. WHITE or the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, or you would like to discuss the spelling of the name of God, I strongly suggest you start your own thread in a forum category of your choice for that purpose.

My answer to your post is the only one you are going to get from me.
I recommend you cut out your straw-man arguments and the old reconstituted and inane slander and start bringing some truthful and edifying facts to the forum.

It is written:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. "
Matthew 7:1-2

Shalom