Can God die

[Treefarmer]

Who is with authority to show us the truth in scripture?

Who's your daddy?
Whose counsel would you like to receive?

Good question Metheist; I like it.

[Michael Joseph]

I take counsel from the Ever Living, my closest of kin and therefore my Kinsman Redeemer. Yet, I pick up the Trust in the office of the Fisherman; not looking to oppress - only if someone asks.

Thank you Treefarmer.

[martin earl]

The Spirit confirms truth, the Comforter.

As for if God can die. Death should be defined as the separation of the body and the spirit. So God cannot Die, but He clearly has the power to separate His spirit from His physical body, which is what I believe happened while the Body was on the cross, then in the Tomb, but the Spirit continued to 'live' and preach to those who passed before.

The First Resurrection was when the body and the Spirit were united again. This resurrected body is what Mary saw, but could not touch until the assent to the Father. After that, the Apostles were allowed to touch His body and testify to the Resurrection.

Or not?

[Michael Joseph]

martin earl thank you for participating on this thread. Your post is very thought provoking as is the intention of this thread to begin with.

I have taken a couple of days to think about this post before attempting to respond. I think what has been giving me such problems is your use of the word “body”. For the purposes of this post see the following terms and their meanings:

Flesh = vessel that houses the True Self
True Self = Soul
Intellect of True Self = Spirit

Therefore interpreting your issue the separation of the Soul from the Spirit would in fact leave one not knowing anything and is really like erasing a hard drive of sorts because there would be no memory. Yet we are informed at Ezekiel 44:24 that we will be able to know each other in the coming Age therefore if that is the case we will be with memory of this Age. And possibly with memory of the first Age as well.

Eze 44:25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.

Dead how? These are Spiritually dead in the sense that they have not been “born by the Spirit above”.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

G509
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

Therefore to the Angels – at Gen 6 no salvation is possible. Because they:

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

And the 2nd requirement is to be “born of the Spirit above”. A renewing of the mind.

However, we are told that Yehoshua is first fruits from the Dead. Not that he encountered a Spiritual Death. We know he did not encounter a Spiritual Death as he went back to:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

For Man to Preach one would need to be with Intellect [Spirit] and an intellect by itself cannot operate absent a Soul [operator]. But God is Spirit.

Therefore the Death of God is the death of the incarnate Flesh of God – The Flesh was sacrificed. As a Lamb was sacrificed at Passover.

When Yehoshua appeared to the apostles he ate. Isn’t that interesting. Yet why should it be? Manna is angels food and yet it also sustains the flesh. Whether Yehoshua manifested again in the flesh to his apostles or if he manifested as the Angel of Yehovah – I have not yet discerned; yet they saw him and communed with him prior to their commission.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

I contend the Resurrection has to do with the Spirit - being Born “from the Spirit above” – in Yehoshua – God is the Spirit Above. Therefore it is said of Yehoshua he is a Quickening Spirit.

Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

G1085
genos
ghen'-os
From G1096; “kin” (abstractly or concretely, literally or figuratively, individually or collectively): - born, country (-man), diversity, generation, kind (-red), nation, offspring, stock.

Offspring here in my opinion should have been “nation” – as in “Spiritual Commonwealth” - this commonwealth knows no bloodlines. Yet bloodlines are important if one is to truly comprehend who is who in scripture – Watchman – Howl O’ Ye Watchman.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

G2227
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Given the foregoing is it possible that God is absent a Soul? Man has a Soul; but is it possible that God is absent a Soul? We read over and over in Old Covenant about the Angel of Yehovah. Might that be the “Presence of Yehovah”? – Yehoshua. Remember Melchizedek met Abraham. King of Righteousness. There is only one. And Abraham tithed to him.

If the foregoing is true then Yehoshua was absent Soul; and was a Quickening Spirit. The first Adam was fashioned from the dust and then Yehovah breathed into him and Adam became a living Soul. Therefore Soul/Spirit are connected in man.


1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

“was made” is added and not in the manuscripts.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The Second “Eth-ha-aw-dawm” is Yehovah from heaven!

And just as Abraham did not grant a “Bill of Divorcement” to Hagar, the bond woman, Yehovah did not grant a bill of divorcement to Torah. Torah shall always be.

Paul knew Torah he was a student of students – he could orally recite the entire Torah which was a prerequisite to attending school under Gamaliel.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Some will be alive when the Soul/Spirit body steps sheds the Flesh Temple.


1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


This corruptible = Flesh [earthly]

Incorruption = Soul/Spirit [Heavenly]

Yet some Living Souls with their intellect, Spirit, are still subject to die – as these are still Dead – remember Ezekiel 44:25? Yet other Souls with their intellect, Spirit, are not subject to death as these have been justified in previous Age.

As such some Souls are still mortal to die at the Last day. And it is only God that can kill the Soul. Remember:

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Therefore some Souls shall not see death – because:

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

God is Spirit therefore:

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Yet those who attend to the Mystery Religions like to give Yehovah an Escort – Ashtoreh as she is called in disgust by Yehovah at Jeremiah 44 – The Queen of Heaven – She is also called Ishtar – as in the abomination – Easter.

Jer 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Okay, I am way off on a tangent now. I digress.

Mary could not touch the resurrected body because of Ezekiel 44:25.

Torah is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The sons of Zadok – to Election shall:

Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.


Yehovah be praised forever and ever.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Is not God sufficient? All in All?

Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Psa 37:40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.

Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Jer 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.


shalom,
mj

[Metheist]

Who's your daddy?
Whose counsel would you like to receive?

Good question Metheist; I like it.

The question remains unanswered, yes?

[Billy James]

Who is with authority to show us the truth in scripture?

The Author.

[Frederick Burrell]

You must realize that the living God speaks to us today just as in days gone by, through many forms and guises. It is the purity of the seeker and the willingness to put aside prejudice that one comes to a true understanding of the ways of God. For in God we live move and have our being.

The law is perfect and all fall short of perfection under the law, forgiveness transmutes the law and it is through forgiveness that one enters a state of grace. This is the essence of the life and teachings. Frederick Burrell

[Michael Joseph]

Freedom goes to choice. So yes, I see choice as important. My understanding is Yehovah on the stand is Nature or the natural world. Men have twisted doctrine to their own ends - myself included - yet some men claim over other men - which oppresses other men.

They claim this Right - under divine Trust - God wills it. I have no trust in Re-ligion. I do however, stay upon two laws which I can see in Nature as well...

Love God and Love Mankind. Therefore it is Love that conquers and the Lusts of Man are diminished and the Spiritual side - Love rises and man sees in other man himself - without need of oppression to gain a purchase on some Claim or Right.

You sound like a man who has been fed an ample amount of bullCRAP and you are tired of it. I too tire of the good pastors. Self serving they are - in my opinion - not all - yet my experience has shown most.

Truth discovers Us. I like that. Is God Truth? I say, yes.

Then God comes to Man and not man to God? Therefore man lacks the capacity to Judge other men, yes? Rather from a universal divine trust man lacks capacity to Judge. Yet from within certain constructs - other Trusts - man gains the capacity to judge based on man's creations and other mans choices.

Yes, I think that fits nicely in the Scriptures. Fact is we cannot get past Origins absent Belief. And I look at Nature and for that matter my Own Body and I see the Spiral, I see Pi, Phi, therefore i see design. And that begs the question, who was the Architect?

Even Evolution is Belief. Evolution does not address Origins. Therefore it has to be taken on Faith. Just ask Hawking - perhaps he can be a 'vane' to show the way. But all of his Mathematics cannot allow him even a glimpse prior to the Singularity of Origins.

The Contempt of Generation and yet it remains - only in Faith - a Belief. And therefore, many conclusions and theories. And, yet a thinking man knows force begs for an a priori action.

I think your so called "Control Freak God" is found in the mouth of the Oppresive Pastor and his passive flock [See Mind Control and A Century of the Self.] You know the one, with the big house and the fancy car. Oh by the way, don't forget to drop some money in the plate....If you don't you know there is that fire and damnation thing....You know Pastor is a Doctor of Divinity. We Trust Pastor - look at his Robe - wow, how could he be wrong?

Given there is One Creator - Self Existing One, then your Creator is my Creator. Should I run and hide or should you? Or perhaps, the good pastors should run and hide. Joking of course, I remain without those vain presentments - ten horses could not drag me back to those buildings on Sunday. I imagine you feel the same way.


Ecc 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

Ecc 1:16 I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.

Ecc 1:17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.

Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

----

Of course Thoughts are Things and the Reality we have is the Reality we Choose. God Saves = Yehoshua. now [directed to me] get on with life.

For me, authority is in the Creator. It seems logical. I know the Creator by the name Yehovah. Yet, I cannot prove it. It is a matter of personal Choice and experience, wouldn't you say?

[Michael Joseph]

A poem by Emily Dickinson - Some keep the Sabbath going to Church

Some keep the Sabbath going to Church --
I keep it, staying at Home --
With a Bobolink for a Chorister --
And an Orchard, for a Dome --

Some keep the Sabbath in Surplice --
I just wear my Wings --
And instead of tolling the Bell, for Church,
Our little Sexton -- sings.

God preaches, a noted Clergyman --
And the sermon is never long,
So instead of getting to Heaven, at last --
I'm going, all along.

[Michael Joseph]

Notice that the Levitical Priests carried the Ark of the Covenant upon their shoulders. What is on your shoulders? Is it your head? Yehoshuah sitting down on the RIGHT side of the Father. Examine your Brain. The Right side controls spiritual or mental processes the Left side controls flesh processes. Yehoshuah told the disciples - fish out of the Right side of the boat.


Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The true Hebrew [Eber] crossing over - overcoming the Flesh Man - and the Spiritual Man controls. The Central Nervous System - remember the Garden - closes the Spiritual Eyes and opens the Physical Eyes. Here is one who has trained his Spiritual Eyes and was given his Physical Eyes:

Mar 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.

Mar 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

[Wow, look at that. Yet, he is still absent use of his Physical Eyes]

Mar 8:25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

-----

There was one Tree in the Garden walking and talking and engaging as many who would.

His mission to destroy as many "cedars of Lebanon" [Yisra'el] as possible. By flattery people. He comes in with prosperity and wealth - a great revival - Jesus is back....

Do you have the Key of David - Yehoshuah comes out of Nathan - NOT Solomon. But oh how they love to talk about Solomon's Gold and his heirs.

To those, I say "Leave me in the field working - I will gladly be left behind." But alas, I digress as I have wondered into the Parable of the Fig Tree. Maybe we can explore that some as well.