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Thread: Company beats IRS penalties with Lawful Money

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  1. #1
    JohnnyCash
    Guest

    Company beats IRS penalties with Lawful Money

    Here's a traditional corporation, with EIN, bank account & W4/W2 employees - your typical small business ensnared in the system. The company was a weekly depositor of federal withholding & employment taxes. For example, If payday was Tuesday then company was required by statute to pay US Treasury the following Tuesday. In 2011 company was late with payments (some weeks over a month late) and racked up penalties over $4800. Here's the timeline, attachments are below...

    April 2012- IRS sends CP161 notice (Company ignores that one)
    June 2012 - IRS sends CP504B letter, Notice of Intent to Levy (yeah whatever)
    July 2012 - IRS sends FNOITL, Final Notice Of Intent To Levy

    Are you thinking this should be an easy win for the IRS? that they'll steamroll right over the company? No so fast, the company was experimenting with redeeming Lawful Money. Company calls the IRS to negotiate a deal, rep says cannot do it, suggests the Form 843. So in July 2012 company files that Request for Abatement. They attach several reasons (Line 7), most were pretty lame in my estimation, one cites the weak economy and one only asks for 1-day subtraction & recalculation of penalties. Except one argument was, I'm paraphrasing, "our bank account contains lawful money pursuant to 12 USC 411 and you shouldn't assume it's yours to take. Legal issues may result ...". Company also attached copy of a stamped lawful money bank deposit.




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    Last edited by JohnnyCash; 09-12-12 at 03:38 AM.

  2. #2
    JohnnyCash
    Guest
    August 2012 - IRS sends LTR2645 "we need more time" 45-day letter signed by a "Mary Hannah."




    Sept. 2012 - IRS folds. IRS decides to comply with the law and sends CP210 letter from Odgen. Company owes zero:

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    Last edited by JohnnyCash; 09-12-12 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Thank you for sharing that. It seems incomplete. Where is the Demand?

    As I understand the supplements there is a Deposit Slip with the Demand and a Memorandum/Attachment to the IRS Form with this quote:


    III. We should not presume the IRS has the right to seize our property, as proposed. If the IRS were to levy our bank account property interesting legal and jurisdictional issues would result considering that a portion of said account contains redeemed lawful money pursuant to 12 USC Section 411.
    Please sanitize and show us those Demand related items too.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 09-12-12 at 10:19 AM.

  4. #4
    JohnnyCash
    Guest
    Ah yes. Here are the Form 843 attachments. (Bear with me as I get it uploaded. NOTE to other posters: "attachments" taller than 600 pixels are reduced to that size by forum software. But if your image is external, sitting on the internet, you can use the IMAGE tag and get it full size.)

    And to head off the questions, this is not my company (no ownership), nor am I an employee.


  5. #5

    Awesome Job! Few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCash View Post
    Ah yes. Here are the Form 843 attachments. (Bear with me as I get it uploaded. NOTE to other posters: "attachments" taller than 600 pixels are reduced to that size by forum software. But if your image is external, sitting on the internet, you can use the IMAGE tag and get it full size.)

    And to head off the questions, this is not my company (no ownership), nor am I an employee.

    What is the deposit slip for? I dont understand this.. or how this piece works.. can you explain what was deposited and to where for how much and why? and how to use the stamp.. thanks in advance for your time.. have an awesome day!

  6. #6
    JohnnyCash
    Guest
    Welcome freedomfighter. As I understand, the company banked some of its income as lawful money by stamping the backside of deposited checks like this: http://jesse2012.com/boaCHECK.jpg Also called a 'restricted endorsement.' The similar stamped receipt shown probably functions as a reminder or indicator of that lawful money deposit. The amount appears to be over $116,000.
    Last edited by JohnnyCash; 03-18-13 at 05:49 PM.

  7. #7
    I am glad the IRS backed down. But as far as the science goes - the Attachment is loaded with great arguments to forgive. Too bad about that.

    I call it shotgunning. There are a lot of good results but...

    The downside to shotgunning is that a trained attorney opposing will grab on to the weakest argument like a pit bull and the good arguments seem to fade off somewhere.

  8. #8
    stoneFree
    Guest
    You haven't heard? The IRS now grants abatements for funniest Line 7 arguments yet. It's called the Golden Egg Abatement Lemme tell ya, tough economy and arguments about geese mean nothing to the IRS. That company violated the statutes by paying late and should've been penalized or levied. That third reason was the winner; of course you are right though, the company left the IRS multiple reasons to grant abatement and we can't say that conclusively. Line III also seems like a veiled threat at litigation - the govt hates to litigate!

    It's reminiscent of my early days discovering Planet Merrill. I fought a traffic ticket using some common law strategy and documents I barely knew. But it seemed to cause the court to schedule me into a special hearing day where no accusing law enforcement showed and all appealers were let off with "Not responsible, lack of prosecution". My take is they didn't want to entertain, link, or give any credit to, my use of the LEGAL NAME/Common Law defense.
    Last edited by stoneFree; 09-12-12 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by stoneFree View Post
    You haven't heard? The IRS now grants abatements for funniest Line 7 arguments yet. It's called the Golden Egg Abatement Lemme tell ya, tough economy and arguments about geese mean nothing to the IRS. That company violated the statutes by paying late and should've been penalized or levied. That third reason was the winner; of course you are right though, the company left the IRS multiple reasons to grant abatement and we can't say that conclusively. Line III also seems like a veiled threat at litigation - the govt hates to litigate!

    It's reminiscent of my early days discovering Planet Merrill. I fought a traffic ticket using some common law strategy and documents I barely knew. But it seemed to cause the court to schedule me into a special hearing day where no accusing law enforcement showed and all appealers were let off with "Not responsible, lack of prosecution". My take is they didn't want to entertain, link, or give any credit to, my use of the LEGAL NAME/Common Law defense.

    Yet wouldn't it be a wonderful demonstration that by projecting love into the IRS the forgiveness was issued?

    The letter is dated tomorrow - September 17. Is there something special about tomorrow? Wouldn't that be prophetic if the IMF and World Bank imploded or otherwise forgave all debt simply because debt cannot be utilized sustainably as money? - And that, eleven years and one week after the original Demand for Redemption came to Judgment?


    Love,

    David Merrill.

  10. #10
    I sent the package yesterday. It consisted of a cover letter, a pile of 843s, copies of the back of some checks, and one $1 redeemed FRN. No shotgun, just a sling and a stone.
    Blessed is he who keeps from stumbling over me.

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