walking the walk

[realname]

Short history
I found this forum about 6 months ago and understood basics of lawful money redemption. Since then my spouse and I (W2 employees) canceled direct deposits and started to redeem lawful money by stamping back of the check with “A regular deposit of lawful money pursuant to 12 USC 411”. Actually, in addition to that I have every copy of the check notarized (may be an overkill but I thought to make first time as bulletproof as possible).

Purpose of the thread
Time of filing is approaching and it is time to establish evidence repository and do the actual work. While this forum contains huge amount of useful information and examples I am still having problems with understanding technique of the paperwork preparation and filing. Also, me not being born in US nor having very fluent speaking and writing abilities I can hardly imagine myself to be able to write legalese without help of honorable people of this forum. Thus I thought that doing the process and documenting all its steps with examples of paperwork, questions and answers will setup a good learning resource for newbies like myself.

What I am planning to achieve during the “walk”

1. While still in 2012 open new bank account and record a notice and demand, so that starting new year I can switch back to direct deposit
2. File return with reduction of income that equals to total amount of lawful checks.
3. R4C IRS correspondence if necessary
4. Get a refund
5. Learn (probably should be the first in the list )
6. Help other to learn (should it be second or first? )

Plan
Here is a plan of actions that I am thinking to perform to achieve my objective. Based on comments and recommendations I hope to get it finalized by the end of the “walk”.

1. Establish Libel of Review (or should it be miscellaneous evidence file?)
2. Open bank account
3. Record Notice and demand
4. Send copy of the recorded Notice to bank
5. File return with copy of all checks into established libel of review
6. File return to IRS
7. … depends on IRS response.

Dilemmas and thoughts

1. I am planning to have joined bank account for future direct deposits as well as to file return as joined. Therefore it seems that when establishing Libel of Review it should have two petitioners, is it possible?

P.S. I expect this thread to touch on many different topics and I am in doubt of proper place for the thread. Dear Admins please fill free to find a better “home” for this thread.

[David Merrill]

Short history
I found this forum about 6 months ago and understood basics of lawful money redemption. Since then my spouse and I (W2 employees) canceled direct deposits and started to redeem lawful money by stamping back of the check with “A regular deposit of lawful money pursuant to 12 USC 411”. Actually, in addition to that I have every copy of the check notarized (may be an overkill but I thought to make first time as bulletproof as possible).

Purpose of the thread
Time of filing is approaching and it is time to establish evidence repository and do the actual work. While this forum contains huge amount of useful information and examples I am still having problems with understanding technique of the paperwork preparation and filing. Also, me not being born in US nor having very fluent speaking and writing abilities I can hardly imagine myself to be able to write legalese without help of honorable people of this forum. Thus I thought that doing the process and documenting all its steps with examples of paperwork, questions and answers will setup a good learning resource for newbies like myself.

What I am planning to achieve during the “walk”

1. While still in 2012 open new bank account and record a notice and demand, so that starting new year I can switch back to direct deposit
2. File return with reduction of income that equals to total amount of lawful checks.
3. R4C IRS correspondence if necessary
4. Get a refund
5. Learn (probably should be the first in the list )
6. Help other to learn (should it be second or first? )

Plan
Here is a plan of actions that I am thinking to perform to achieve my objective. Based on comments and recommendations I hope to get it finalized by the end of the “walk”.

1. Establish Libel of Review (or should it be miscellaneous evidence file?)
2. Open bank account
3. Record Notice and demand
4. Send copy of the recorded Notice to bank
5. File return with copy of all checks into established libel of review
6. File return to IRS
7. … depends on IRS response.

Dilemmas and thoughts

1. I am planning to have joined bank account for future direct deposits as well as to file return as joined. Therefore it seems that when establishing Libel of Review it should have two petitioners, is it possible?

P.S. I expect this thread to touch on many different topics and I am in doubt of proper place for the thread. Dear Admins please fill free to find a better “home” for this thread.

That is a beautiful post!

I took a look around with some tools and see you have been parsing out the various posts and threads of the Lesson Plan with an engineering-meticulousness. I like that! You comprehend the process and want to proceed with your initial filing after redeeming lawful money carefully, implementing the Notice and Demand procedure too.

One thing I may have neglected to display on this forum is how a suitor has been getting his refund in full, however the IRS has been crediting his past liability. That is to say, he has been owing the IRS for past years and the IRS agent recognizes he has a full refund coming, but deducts that amount from his past taxes due.

That is an interesting admission.

The thread is placed perfectly too. It is great to have you posting finally, after a few months of careful study here!

[Treefarmer]

Short history
I found this forum about 6 months ago and understood basics of lawful money redemption. Since then my spouse and I (W2 employees) canceled direct deposits and started to redeem lawful money by stamping back of the check with “A regular deposit of lawful money pursuant to 12 USC 411”. Actually, in addition to that I have every copy of the check notarized (may be an overkill but I thought to make first time as bulletproof as possible).

Purpose of the thread
Time of filing is approaching and it is time to establish evidence repository and do the actual work. While this forum contains huge amount of useful information and examples I am still having problems with understanding technique of the paperwork preparation and filing. Also, me not being born in US nor having very fluent speaking and writing abilities I can hardly imagine myself to be able to write legalese without help of honorable people of this forum. Thus I thought that doing the process and documenting all its steps with examples of paperwork, questions and answers will setup a good learning resource for newbies like myself.

What I am planning to achieve during the “walk”

1. While still in 2012 open new bank account and record a notice and demand, so that starting new year I can switch back to direct deposit
2. File return with reduction of income that equals to total amount of lawful checks.
3. R4C IRS correspondence if necessary
4. Get a refund
5. Learn (probably should be the first in the list )
6. Help other to learn (should it be second or first? )

Plan
Here is a plan of actions that I am thinking to perform to achieve my objective. Based on comments and recommendations I hope to get it finalized by the end of the “walk”.

1. Establish Libel of Review (or should it be miscellaneous evidence file?)
2. Open bank account
3. Record Notice and demand
4. Send copy of the recorded Notice to bank
5. File return with copy of all checks into established libel of review
6. File return to IRS
7. … depends on IRS response.

Dilemmas and thoughts

1. I am planning to have joined bank account for future direct deposits as well as to file return as joined. Therefore it seems that when establishing Libel of Review it should have two petitioners, is it possible?

P.S. I expect this thread to touch on many different topics and I am in doubt of proper place for the thread. Dear Admins please fill free to find a better “home” for this thread.

Hello realname
Welcome to the forum.
I highly recommend you read this somewhat lengthy treatise, while you pay your income taxes on your W-2 "income" conventionally, to save yourself much agony and expenses in the future.

Even though you can redeem your paychecks for lawful money AFTER you receive the "taxable income", you still owe the income taxes because you signed W-4s, which result in W-2s, which means that you are receiving "taxable income" as far as the IRS is concerned.

So-called lawful money returns are still new to the IRS right now. Give them about 2 years and watch what happens.
They have 7 years to mess around with a return you file for any given tax year.
Just because they issue refunds for a while doesn't mean that "it worked".
The IRS will demand those refunds back later, plus penalties and interest, and with frivolous filing fees piled on top.

I don't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but after experiencing the HENDRICKSON disaster, I would hate to see more people fall into this trap.
Lawful money is real, it exists, but unless you are being paid in cash or coin, you are not getting lawful money.
If you signed W-4s you volunteered to be a taxpayer-slave via the trade or business scam.

Please be careful.

[realname]

Hello realname
Welcome to the forum.
I highly recommend you read this somewhat lengthy treatise, while you pay your income taxes on your W-2 "income" conventionally, to save yourself much agony and expenses in the future.

Even though you can redeem your paychecks for lawful money AFTER you receive the "taxable income", you still owe the income taxes because you signed W-4s, which result in W-2s, which means that you are receiving "taxable income" as far as the IRS is concerned.

So-called lawful money returns are still new to the IRS right now. Give them about 2 years and watch what happens.
They have 7 years to mess around with a return you file for any given tax year.
Just because they issue refunds for a while doesn't mean that "it worked".
The IRS will demand those refunds back later, plus penalties and interest, and with frivolous filing fees piled on top.

I don't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but after experiencing the HENDRICKSON disaster, I would hate to see more people fall into this trap.
Lawful money is real, it exists, but unless you are being paid in cash or coin, you are not getting lawful money.
If you signed W-4s you volunteered to be a taxpayer-slave via the trade or business scam.

Please be careful.

Thank you Treefarmer,
And for resource you have given. I was capable to read through 0.0001% of it by now. I will continue to study it. Your advice to be careful is well taken. This is exactly what I was looking for when joining this forum. There is a difference between reading and doing, now every word said has more weight (I like it). People like you, David and many others helped me to establish my understanding of the issue and DO IT…. I consider this to be a journey. I may end up nowhere or find a treasure. And most important thing, from my perspective, is to get new knowledge (without getting something new life become boring, this is why people stay in line for IPhone X. I prefer something different).

[realname]

Following the plan, seems like one of the first things that I need to do is to take care of a bank account. I see different options:

1. Use existing (interest bearing) account and do Notice and Demand against it. As a consequence I will be gladly paying taxes on all accrued interests.
2. Somehow make the bank to convert existing one from Interest bearing to non-bearing account. Does anyone has experience or at least procedural understanding on how to do this?
3. Open new account, without signing W-??. When asked why I am not signing W-??, what would be my explanation to the clerk?

What would be the best option from your experience? If there are legal implications associated with either choice, I would highly appreciate simplified explanation (plain English)(if possible), so that people (me including) who just starting will have easier comprehension.

[realname]

After reading some of the materials referred by Treefarmer, it makes absolute sense that as W-2 employee I am involved in “trade or business”. However, analysis made by Peter Eric Hendrickson in his “Cracking the Code” in regard to W-4 seems to be answering the concern:

…Needless to say, and despite 3402(p)(3)(B), the fact that a business calls payments “wages” paid to an “employee”—and even report them as such—does not transform them into “income”, if they are actually paid to a private-sector worker. Chapter 24 imposes no tax at all (nor does subtitle F)—it simply provides for withholding. The amount withheld under its provisions are credited against any liability for “income” tax which might be found to exists under the provisions of subtitle A….

While I am aware of Peter’s failure, it doesn’t not automatically invalidates his whole research. Next step is to look into subtitle A and see how it fits with lawful money redemption process.
Regardless of future finding, it seems to be desirable to find a way to dispute/abate (cannot find better word) W-4/W-2, so that it makes very simple and clear to all parties involved (IRS, court, myself) without arousing potential/actual employer.

[cdsea10]

i have been depositing with the non endorsement also. i make copies front and back of every check and write the check number on the back so the back and front correspond. i have never really known how to utilize this and i have read lots since the 1st article in 2006...
in january i go to the bank and have them print all deposits and a cover latter stating these are the deposits for year 20?? in account #123345 and have the name of a contact person and have it noterized at the bank. now, i have a 3rd party witness.
i believe in the 3 year rule also.... this is new and how the agency will respond is still unknown.
i have learned to never file joint... only married file separate. that way my bride is protected.
keep in mind taking deductions is a benefit.

[David Merrill]

Following the plan, seems like one of the first things that I need to do is to take care of a bank account. I see different options:

1. Use existing (interest bearing) account and do Notice and Demand against it. As a consequence I will be gladly paying taxes on all accrued interests.
2. Somehow make the bank to convert existing one from Interest bearing to non-bearing account. Does anyone has experience or at least procedural understanding on how to do this?
3. Open new account, without signing W-??. When asked why I am not signing W-??, what would be my explanation to the clerk?

What would be the best option from your experience? If there are legal implications associated with either choice, I would highly appreciate simplified explanation (plain English)(if possible), so that people (me including) who just starting will have easier comprehension.

I believe that is a decision for the bank to make.

After reading some of the materials referred by Treefarmer, it makes absolute sense that as W-2 employee I am involved in “trade or business”. However, analysis made by Peter Eric Hendrickson in his “Cracking the Code” in regard to W-4 seems to be answering the concern:



While I am aware of Peter’s failure, it doesn’t not automatically invalidates his whole research. Next step is to look into subtitle A and see how it fits with lawful money redemption process.
Regardless of future finding, it seems to be desirable to find a way to dispute/abate (cannot find better word) W-4/W-2, so that it makes very simple and clear to all parties involved (IRS, court, myself) without arousing potential/actual employer.

This and any other Pete HENDRICKSON argument I have ever come across has been shot down so much since the early '90's that any attorney bringing them into tax court will be sanctioned, and any pro se defendant will be warned only once. These are like navigating with the UCC. There are great theoretical and hypothetical scenarios but expecting the court to follow a script is really the first hard lesson anybody can expect.

[David Merrill]

i have been depositing with the non endorsement also. i make copies front and back of every check and write the check number on the back so the back and front correspond. i have never really known how to utilize this and i have read lots since the 1st article in 2006...
in january i go to the bank and have them print all deposits and a cover latter stating these are the deposits for year 20?? in account #123345 and have the name of a contact person and have it noterized at the bank. now, i have a 3rd party witness.
i believe in the 3 year rule also.... this is new and how the agency will respond is still unknown.
i have learned to never file joint... only married file separate. that way my bride is protected.
keep in mind taking deductions is a benefit.

Suitors in the brain trust are exploring the 843 Form and variations of Notice and Demand. A very interesting development is a new suitor who has had $30K in redeemed lawful money Refund applied in its entirety to a pre-redemption tax liability.

[realname]

i have been depositing with the non endorsement also. i make copies front and back of every check and write the check number on the back so the back and front correspond

.

Trying to resolve the problem with association of the check's front a back made me to notarize each check copy where front and back printed on the same page.

i have learned to never file joint... only married file separate. that way my bride is protected.
keep in mind taking deductions is a benefit.

Thank you for excellent points.