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Thread: Deeds and Deeds of Trust

  1. #21

  2. #22
    WOW! That Archives.org is simply amazing!!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    "people" vs "the People" vs. persons--distinctions worth minding? Re: law library time...there are formidable references (even entire books) available online:

    books.google.com (one can select Free Google Books only if you want the free ones online)
    http://archive.org/details/texts
    http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...nce_index.html (enough here to keep you busy for a year or more maybe)
    Dynamite links!

  4. #24
    Tax Checkpoints: Income, estate, and gift tax considerations should be kept in mind at all times when drafting an inter vivos trust instrument. The trustor may be subject to a gift tax on creation of an inter vivos trust. However, the trustor is generally not taxed on trust income and the trust property is ordinarily not considered part of the trustor's estate for tax purposes, unless the trustor has retain certain prescribed beneficial interests in or controls over the trust property. The trust is subject to taxation as a separate entity on income that it accumulates, but not as to income it distributes. The trustee is not subject to taxation on trust income but is responsible for tax reporting. The beneficiary is generally taxed on trust income as received. The usual consequences of trust creation and operation may be assured or changed for the better by proper drafting. (26) http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...ur/trusts.html

    Lights starting flashing and bells ringing when I read the above. I'll need some time to formulate my thoughts, but I wanted it in the thread so I could refer to it easily.

    Thanks

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BAMAJiPS View Post
    No, no - that's not the problem because I am tracing all the patriot arguments back and before preceding to any of them am finding the laws on the books to verify them.
    Cool.
    You have to be careful with law books as well. If one begins reading statutes or acts first without any background in the history, philosophy, jurisprudence, or political economics leading up to its creation, that's doing it the wrong way.

    Resources begets economics begets politics begets law.

    Law is will.
    Politics is power and distribution of power and resources.
    Economics is money, resources, and its distributions.
    Resources is land, minerals, and others items.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMAJiPS
    I guess I was lamenting the fact that the only Internet searchable forums on the subject are two "extremes" if you will - Patriots/Freeman and the polar opposite which only hurl insults at us people trying to unencumber ourselves w government regulation and abuse. I suppose I was hoping for more information of success stories featured on news reporting sites - but I know the absurdity of expecting the media to cover anything outside of their programming and propaganda
    Don't forget disinfo campaigns. Government, corporations, and other entities can't afford you breaking free by denying them usufruct.

    Its all part of the learning. This part is called discernment, a most critical skill.
    Last edited by shikamaru; 01-13-13 at 01:01 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Alan View Post
    Tax Checkpoints: Income, estate, and gift tax considerations should be kept in mind at all times when drafting an inter vivos trust instrument. The trustor may be subject to a gift tax on creation of an inter vivos trust. However, the trustor is generally not taxed on trust income and the trust property is ordinarily not considered part of the trustor's estate for tax purposes, unless the trustor has retain certain prescribed beneficial interests in or controls over the trust property. The trust is subject to taxation as a separate entity on income that it accumulates, but not as to income it distributes. The trustee is not subject to taxation on trust income but is responsible for tax reporting. The beneficiary is generally taxed on trust income as received. The usual consequences of trust creation and operation may be assured or changed for the better by proper drafting. (26) http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...ur/trusts.html

    Lights starting flashing and bells ringing when I read the above. I'll need some time to formulate my thoughts, but I wanted it in the thread so I could refer to it easily.

    Thanks
    Perhaps one of the purposes for estate and gift tax is for government to try to allay net asset disparities between different groups?
    If this becomes too extreme, the society will collapse. A broken engine makes no money and has no benefits.

    One of the reasons for Rome's collapse is that people just left the polity.
    Sumeria and Babylon nearly collapsed several times due to people just up and abandoning their lands and debts.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by shikamaru View Post
    Perhaps one of the purposes for estate and gift tax is for government to try to allay net asset disparities between different groups?
    If this becomes too extreme, the society will collapse. A broken engine makes no money and has no benefits.

    One of the reasons for Rome's collapse is that people just left the polity.
    Sumeria and Babylon nearly collapsed several times due to people just up and abandoning their lands and debts.
    I think the purpose for taxation simply is domination, not dominion. Here (in trust kaw) we have an example of a mental model being created and thrust upon people without their knowledge, therefore without their consent. I'm speaking about trusts in general, not merely deeds of trust.

    I became very excited when, upon reading the roles of various persons in a trust, I realized that one man can hold more than one office in a trust. That is something I knew beforehand, but it suddenly became crystal clear. I don't want to interrupt the flow of this thread, but I have to mention that we hold FRN's in trust. Redeeming them in lawful money changes the trust. I'm sorry for revisiting what is probably old news for you, but I'm having a moment of clarity.

    Now then, if society collapses because certain groups of people holding positions of power within it are engaging in dishonest and self-aggrandizing behavior, so be it. Perhaps societal collapse could be avoided, but that would require more people to understand their role in the overall societal trust. How many take the time to do that? And how could they know they're understanding correctly?

    The trust model is useful for those in power. In fact, it appears to be the engine of domination in society to me. When I discovered that all property vests in the state, supposedly for my benefit, I have to say I was a bit perturbed by that. The sovereign gathers taxes at all checkpoints in the trust, and for what? To assert dominion over people, not merely things. That is radically evil in my estimation.
    Last edited by Keith Alan; 01-13-13 at 02:30 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Alan View Post
    I think the purpose for taxation simply is domination, not dominion. Here (in trust kaw) we have an example of a mental model being created and thrust upon people without their knowledge, therefore without their consent. I'm speaking about trusts in general, not merely deeds of trust.
    Taxes are tribute.
    A tax system is a tributary system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Alan
    Now then, if society collapses because certain groups of people holding positions of power within it are engaging in dishonest and self-aggrandizing behavior, so be it. Perhaps societal collapse could be avoided, but that would require more people to understand their role in the overall societal trust. How many take the time to do that? And how could they know they're understanding correctly?
    Government is a public trust.
    A public trust is synonymous with charitable trust.
    The trust will be formed by declaration. A public trust established by "the People" typically takes the form of a constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Alan
    The trust model is useful for those in power. In fact, it appears to be the engine of domination in society to me. When I discovered that all property vests in the state, supposedly for my benefit, I have to say I was a bit perturbed by that. The sovereign gathers taxes at all checkpoints in the trust, and for what? To assert dominion over people, not merely things. That is radically evil in my estimation.
    Society seems more like a pyramid to me.
    Pyramids are for purposes of separating energies.

    For example in a corporation, benefits and goodies tend to flow upward while burdens and duties tend to flow downward.
    This is separation of the energies of rights, benefits from duties and obligations.

    If I plant a tree, its fruits are my reward. In the aforementioned scenario, the rights, benefits, duties, and obligations are vested in the same entity.

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