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Thread: Redeeming Lawful Money on Daily Paul

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
    I believe the question for #4 is, "Is redeemed lawful money taxable income?"
    I would like to see a discussion about that as well.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Alan View Post
    I would like to see a discussion about that as well.

    David,

    Let me just say your responses on this site are extremely appreciated. I also apologize for asking maybe what seem to be obvious questions, but, I am in the process of trying to form a process flow chart with the 3 or 4 steps to begin this process. Each step will have links with supporting text / photos, but, I really want to wrap my head around this, so once again, thank you. Basically I find bits and pieces here on the site, but, a condensed version, bringing all the info together is my goal.

    Yeah so question #4, I've heard stating all your income was in FRN and not really lawful money has been a claim to the IRS as a reason for not having to pay taxes. Well, because FRN's aren't lawful and not really anything of substance, therefore you never really received anything for pay and you can't be taxed on something that you didn't receive. So that is one side of the coin, and I thought I saw a thread describing exactly this reason was listed in a memo to IRS agents as a frivolous claim.

    The other side of the coin, if all your income is in LAWFUL money, not FRN's, the IRS can't tax it. You can claim all your withholding's are due back to you. This is obviously the most interesting part, and I among others would like to hear a description as to why. I LOVE the idea of not allowing my bank to expand my money and will definitely pass on an interest bearing account if it is necessary to accomplish this end. So yeah, why can't the IRS tax lawful money?

    I guess when a bank makes a loan through fractional reserve banking, the money has just been created, increasing the overall supply in the system. What I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around... Does it ever go the other way, does the supply shrink, because how I see it, this system has created a money spewing beast that never gets smaller and always creates interest for the money grabbing octopus we know as the federal reserve.

  3. #13
    There is a passage in the Bible at James 1:25-28 or so about doing and hearing. You might have to trust me about this for the first step - make your demand. If you have direct deposit and your boss wont consider giving you a paper paycheck then it starts to get complicated but like Michael Joseph points out there are a lot of banks around for most people. Then you might consider changing your signature to "Lawful Money" or "Lawful Money Demanded"? - Just do that across the board. Tell your bank that your signature has changed and so you need to revise your Signature Card to your new signature.

    People pay me cash and that is lawful money for all intents and purposes. Without Step 1 above though, evidence has convinced me, like with your post that the remedy will be evasive for you. What I just did was reduce it down to one simple execution but you are probably conditioned not to change your signature, aren't you? The people at your bank may be upset about it too, heaven forbid.

    But this kind of thinking comes natural to me after sharing experiences with intelligent people like you who are coming out of bondage (conditioning).

    My signature is David Merrill in paleo-Hebrew. I changed it to that a decade ago. But whenever somebody makes me sign for cash - like with a cash refund, and of course I want the cash I sign "Lawful Money". I do not even sign cursive. Hebrew by the way is all upper case and cursive is completely foreign to it. Punctuation and the vowel sounds (jots and tittles) were foreign to Hebrew in the time before Babylonian Captivity. Nebuchadnezzar knew how to discombooberate the Israelites - he captured the intellectuals into Babylon for seventy years and changed their alphabet and their names too!

    Think that over. Your remedy is as simple as you making a simple demand. A principle behind this truth is, If you ask, it shall be delivered unto you. Or - Seek and you shall find.

    Are you already demanding lawful money? Great! To your question then:

    You want flowcharts? This is the Diagram for Are You Lost at C?


    That is probably too much to understand but the tax exemption is expressed in the IRC as Mandatory Exception in §508(c)(1).

    (c) Exceptions

    (1) Mandatory exceptions

    Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—

    (A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, or
    If you want to be the good church do not register for 501(c)(3) because that is a non-profit religious organization akin to the Olympic Committee for one example; the religion of sports competition? Hey! Whatever captures the minds as an opiate - in the modern rendition of Nebuchadnezzar!

    A close semblance is corporation sole. Like a town mayor or the Pope. But I suggest you be like a corporation sole, not to register as one. [Eddie KAHN on Wesley SNIPES conviction served time in prison on this registered rendition of The Good Church.]]

    So simply study what the church is as in ecclesia that is pleasing to God.


    Here is an example of current bylaws for a 501(c)(3) church for contrast:


    All the members are presumed to be 501(c)(3) churches as they await approval and the IRS awaits their applications! It is a nasty trick to pull but then again, it is easy to understand and avoid once you ask the Holy Spirit for direction. Here is a great lesson; the pastor saying this was packing in two weeks!

  4. #14
    David,

    I think I lost you after Hebrew. Yes, I am going to change my signature card. I will talk to the bank, maybe get something in writing declaring my account as non-interest bearing. But, outside of filing myself as some sort of church/organization, I really was looking for someone's returns, or a sample of the law stating that lawful money isn't taxable.

    Also, I'm assuming opening a evidence repository is solely for those interested in filing lawful money to the IRS as support of their claims. As well if the bank was to fractionally lend your account, this evidence repository could be used. Either way, I'm trying to boil this down into a pamphlet I could give my family, my friends to describe the process of demanding and why. The way I look at it, if this money is tax free, awesome, but the biggest part of this is the patriotic step of not increasing the debt.

    Anyone else?

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecz View Post
    David,

    I think I lost you after Hebrew. Yes, I am going to change my signature card. I will talk to the bank, maybe get something in writing declaring my account as non-interest bearing. But, outside of filing myself as some sort of church/organization, I really was looking for someone's returns, or a sample of the law stating that lawful money isn't taxable.

    Also, I'm assuming opening a evidence repository is solely for those interested in filing lawful money to the IRS as support of their claims. As well if the bank was to fractionally lend your account, this evidence repository could be used. Either way, I'm trying to boil this down into a pamphlet I could give my family, my friends to describe the process of demanding and why. The way I look at it, if this money is tax free, awesome, but the biggest part of this is the patriotic step of not increasing the debt.

    Anyone else?
    It will be great to hear other explanations. Section 508 is about the clearest you will find at describing anything that exists outside the scope of the IR Code.

    Mandatory Exception for churches.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecz View Post
    David,

    I think I lost you after Hebrew. Yes, I am going to change my signature card. I will talk to the bank, maybe get something in writing declaring my account as non-interest bearing. But, outside of filing myself as some sort of church/organization, I really was looking for someone's returns, or a sample of the law stating that lawful money isn't taxable.

    snip.....snip

    Anyone else?
    I have explored the idea that lawful money is not regarded as taxable income by the IRS in my own small way, via correspondence with the IRS, tax returns on "income" which was so low that the returns should have resulted in refunds no matter how one filed them, and other research and observation.

    During the course of this experiment, I experienced the following:

    Whenever I wrote letters to the IRS asking questions or making statements about LM, the IRS responded that it would not respond any further to my "frivolous correspondence".

    The IRS does not seem to consider LM as anything other than taxable income, if an information return such as W-2 exists which states that a PERSON received so-called "wages or income", regardless of how the backs of paychecks had been endorsed or non-endorsed, and LM had been demanded.

    I have a searchable text of the 1986 IRC, and I could not find the term "lawful money" in it.

    The IRS doesn't seem to care about what men and women do with cash or FRNs on their own time, as long as this cash doesn't go through PERSONAL numbered bank accounts. Banking with numbered accounts involving SSN or TIN appears to be a "trade or business with the United States".
    DISCLAIMER:
    I'm linking to the "trade or business scam" research at famguardian only for the discussion of the statutes and court cases which it offers, not for any ideas about remedy, which may or may not be contained therein.

    I have observed that some restrictively endorsed (LM demanded) bank checks which were deposited in non-interest bearing accounts and on which no information returns had been filed with the IRS, were not considered "taxable income, gains, or wages" by the IRS.

    CONCLUSION:
    Based on my experiences, I concluded that the IRS regards amounts of dollar denominated fiat currency which a PERSON (FIRST M LAST, DOB, SSN) receives in the form of bank checks or direct deposits, and which are documented on information returns, such as W-2 or 1099-MISC, as taxable income, regardless of how the checks are non-/endorsed or the bank signature card is signed.
    Treefarmer

    There is power in the blood of Jesus

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Treefarmer View Post
    I have explored the idea that lawful money is not regarded as taxable income by the IRS in my own small way, via correspondence with the IRS, tax returns on "income" which was so low that the returns should have resulted in refunds no matter how one filed them, and other research and observation.

    During the course of this experiment, I experienced the following:

    Whenever I wrote letters to the IRS asking questions or making statements about LM, the IRS responded that it would not respond any further to my "frivolous correspondence".

    The IRS does not seem to consider LM as anything other than taxable income, if an information return such as W-2 exists which states that a PERSON received so-called "wages or income", regardless of how the backs of paychecks had been endorsed or non-endorsed, and LM had been demanded.

    I have a searchable text of the 1986 IRC, and I could not find the term "lawful money" in it.

    The IRS doesn't seem to care about what men and women do with cash or FRNs on their own time, as long as this cash doesn't go through PERSONAL numbered bank accounts. Banking with numbered accounts involving SSN or TIN appears to be a "trade or business with the United States".
    DISCLAIMER:
    I'm linking to the "trade or business scam" research at famguardian only for the discussion of the statutes and court cases which it offers, not for any ideas about remedy, which may or may not be contained therein.

    I have observed that some restrictively endorsed (LM demanded) bank checks which were deposited in non-interest bearing accounts and on which no information returns had been filed with the IRS, were not considered "taxable income, gains, or wages" by the IRS.

    CONCLUSION:
    Based on my experiences, I concluded that the IRS regards amounts of dollar denominated fiat currency which a PERSON (FIRST M LAST, DOB, SSN) receives in the form of bank checks or direct deposits, and which are documented on information returns, such as W-2 or 1099-MISC, as taxable income, regardless of how the checks are non-/endorsed or the bank signature card is signed.
    Interesting ...

    Perhaps how one signs their W-4 would have some bearing?
    The W-4 is a pledge or gift document.

    Possessing an interest bearing bank account is public banking?

  8. #18
    For what it's worth from Geri Powers

    http://governmentprinciples.wordpres...s-5-tax-forms/

    (g) No books kept; no accounting period
    Except as provided in section 443 (relating to returns for periods of less than 12 months), the taxpayer’s taxable year shall be the calendar year if—

    And from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tips_a.../message/14133

    (1)the taxpayer keeps no books;

    (2)the taxpayer does not have an annual accounting period; or

    (3)the taxpayer has an annual accounting period, but such period does not qualify as a fiscal year.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/441

    Found another http://www.freedomlaw.com/archives/o.../dismyths.html

  9. #19
    I think there may be something here

    12 USC § 143 - Banks in Alaska and insular possessions; lawful money reserves

    Every national banking association located in Alaska or in a dependency or insular possession or any part of the United States outside of the continental United States, and not a member of the Federal reserve system, shall at all times have on hand in lawful money of the United States an amount equal to at least 15 percent of the aggregate amount of its deposits in all respects. Whenever the lawful money of any such association shall fall below 15 percent of its deposits such association shall not increase its liabilities by making any new loans or discounts other than by discounting or purchasing bills of exchange payable at sight nor make any dividends of its profits until the required proportion between the aggregate amount of its deposits and its lawful money of the United States has been restored. And the Comptroller of the Currency shall notify any such association whose lawful money reserve shall be below the amount required to be kept on hand to make good such reserve, and if such association shall fail for thirty days thereafter so to make good its lawful money the Comptroller may, with the concurrence of the Secretary of the Treasury, appoint a receiver to wind up the business of the association as provided in section 192 of this title.

    Here non-member banks, basically banks that aren't members of the federal reserve system, are required to hold 15% of their DEPOSITS in lawful money. Once again, this isn't a reserve requirement, this is a requirement in the type of deposits held. I have already sent an inquiry to ALLY bank, a non-member bank in Alaska. The point here is there is a difference in the type of deposits held. If indeed there is a difference, then it would be interesting to find out if they can use this "lawful money" in fractional banking...

  10. #20
    Nice Find!!

    What that means to me is when the FRNs in the vault fall below that portion the bank can no longer operate in elastic fashion. Ergo, lawful money.

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