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Thread: Express trust

  1. #61
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    True. However, why does there exist a great insistence about the timing of the writing of the Thomas "gospel" by those who wish to assert its authority and inspiration as equal to the four canonical gospels? Doesn't that matter in regards to its claimed authenticity? The title in your post says it all, "These are the secret words which the Living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas wrote". Really?

    If that claim is proven untrue, then what of the rest of it? Also, the four Gospels have 4 key elements in common whereas these are either contradicted, diminished or ignored in the other non-canonical "gospels"...

    (1) the apostolic preaching about Jesus, from the beginning, involved four key elements; (2) all four of the canonical gospels have these four elements in common; and (3) the extracanonical gospels do not, and in most cases do not clearly have any of them. These four key elements, identified by Paul in the mid fifties and clearly representing an even earlier tradition, are summarised in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4: (i) the identity of Jesus as the Christ, anointed by the creator God of Israel, (ii) his fulfilment of the Jewish Scriptures, (iii) his effective atoning death on behalf of others, and (iv) his bodily resurrection from death.

    source

    If there exists contradictions in fundamental theology between the Four Gospels and the non-canonical "gospels", what do you hold as true?
    For instance do we suppose that St. Paul was leading a doomsday suicide cult when we read the following or perhaps maybe he means something other than the literal words? I guess what I am getting at is once you know you don't need anyone to teach you.

    2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    I do not repose a certain confidence in literalism or formalism readings of Scriptures. For instance Jesus is said to be the lamb slain before the foundation of the world and then later said that the spiritual place of the crucifixion is Egypt and Sodom. The literalist would say He was slain outside of the city at a place call Golgotha [skull] or at Calvary [skull]. Nevertheless, all are true. But it only appears there is conflict until the light behind the symbol is revealed.

    Therefore I come from the light as a child of the Father of lights.

    It is as Jonah commanded his thoughts [men in the ship] to throw Me overboard!

    Jonah 1:15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.

    A trust is reposed and established in one who makes a use of a reed established by others. Who established that reed [canon] and what were the uses and purposes? Why did they not tell the readers of the other books that were being cited within their reed? For if other books are being cited, then what of their reed?

    I sit not as judge, we can eat what we can and be satisfied.

    Shalom,
    MJ
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    For instance do we suppose that St. Paul was leading a doomsday suicide cult when we read the following or perhaps maybe he means something other than the literal words? I guess what I am getting at is once you know you don't need anyone to teach you.

    2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    I do not repose a certain confidence in literalism or formalism readings of Scriptures. For instance Jesus is said to be the lamb slain before the foundation of the world and then later said that the spiritual place of the crucifixion is Egypt and Sodom. The literalist would say He was slain outside of the city at a place call Golgotha [skull] or at Calvary [skull]. Nevertheless, all are true. But it only appears there is conflict until the light behind the symbol is revealed.

    Therefore I come from the light as a child of the Father of lights.

    It is as Jonah commanded his thoughts [men in the ship] to throw Me overboard!

    Jonah 1:15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.

    A trust is reposed and established in one who makes a use of a reed established by others. Who established that reed [canon] and what were the uses and purposes? Why did they not tell the readers of the other books that were being cited within their reed? For if other books are being cited, then what of their reed?

    I sit not as judge, we can eat what we can and be satisfied.

    Shalom,
    MJ
    Some would not conclude "doomsday suicide cultism" from the literal words; it all depends upon one's presuppositions. Further, some would also recognize that perhaps the literal and spiritual meanings co-exist and are the synergistic teachings of an omniscient Creator who meets us where we are. God knows ALL and He is not constrained by time and space, therefore he knows what will transpire literally and uses that to teach us lessons that transcend the literal happenings, not render them "unreal" or illusionary.

    The books are a guide from our Creator written by the chosen few who He inspired over time. If we believe in Divine Providence, we realize there is something bigger and greater than we at work in the unseen realm and those who ask, seek and knock will not be ignored by Him. If there are texts which fundamental contradict the four Gospels regarding the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, then we must honestly acknowledge that and choose whom we shall serve. As for me and my house...

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    If there are texts which fundamental contradict the four Gospels regarding the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, then we must honestly acknowledge that and choose whom we shall serve. As for me and my house...
    those choices may not be so limited though (as in this or that) thats why I like to see why others have made their choice, or why they "express trust"

    recently there has been a resurgence of the flat earth thinkers, I lack trust almost completely it seems so Ive been looking at their data and you know what, some of it actually adds up!

    expressing trust seems pretty easy compared to expressing dis-trust. it is a good way to find out who is truly forgiving and genuinely honest though, I think. not very enjoyable way to be (distrustful) though, I can say that with confidence if nothing else.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    Some would not conclude "doomsday suicide cultism" from the literal words; it all depends upon one's presuppositions. Further, some would also recognize that perhaps the literal and spiritual meanings co-exist and are the synergistic teachings of an omniscient Creator who meets us where we are. God knows ALL and He is not constrained by time and space, therefore he knows what will transpire literally and uses that to teach us lessons that transcend the literal happenings, not render them "unreal" or illusionary.

    The books are a guide from our Creator written by the chosen few who He inspired over time. If we believe in Divine Providence, we realize there is something bigger and greater than we at work in the unseen realm and those who ask, seek and knock will not be ignored by Him. If there are texts which fundamental contradict the four Gospels regarding the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, then we must honestly acknowledge that and choose whom we shall serve. As for me and my house...
    Right on - THEY DO COEXIST. That is what Thomas is telling us. But when the Light is found hidden in the symbol then the small fish are thrown out and the Great Fine Fish is kept! Thusly we have TWO ears. One to hear the fleshly lower meanings and one to hear the Spiritual meaning - Light. You might say it another way - the pearl of great price.

    "Bent my ear to hear the tune
    and closed my eyes to see."

    James_1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.



    Shalom,
    MJ
    Last edited by Michael Joseph; 12-28-15 at 07:58 PM.
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

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  5. #65
    The following
    Gnosticism is based on a mystical, intuitive, subjective, inward, emotional approach to truth which is not new at all. It is very old, going back in some form to the Garden of Eden, where Satan questioned God and the words He spoke and convinced Adam and Eve to reject them and accept a lie. He does the same thing today as he “prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8). He still calls God and the Bible into question and catches in his web those who are either naïve and scripturally uninformed or who are seeking some personal revelation to make them feel special, unique, and superior to others. Let us follow the Apostle Paul who said to “test everything. Hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21), and this we do by comparing everything to the Word of God, the only Truth. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on [asceticism the doctrine that one can reach a high spiritual state through the practice of extreme self-denial or self-mortification or TRUSTS] Gnosticism is perhaps the most dangerous heresy that threatened the early church during the first three centuries.It threatened TRUSTS and order . Influenced by such philosophers as Plato, Gnosticism is based on two false premises. First, it espouses a dualism regarding spirit and matter. Gnostics assert that matter is inherently evil and spirit is good. As a result of this presupposition, Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only.CARNALITY needs no permission if it feels good do it.

    Second, Gnostics claim to possess an elevated knowledge, a “higher truth” known only to a certain few. Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis which means “to know.” Gnostics claim to possess a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plain of existence. Gnostics see themselves as a privileged class elevated above everybody else by their higher, deeper knowledge of God. A Pharisees claim or the Lords trust what is greater. in the spirit or in so many words?The biblical view of Jesus affirms His complete humanity as well as His full deity. can man be trusted in this grace.

    To discredit the idea of any compatibility between Christianity and Gnosticism, one has only to compare their teachings on the main doctrines of the faith. On the matter of salvation, Gnosticism teaches that salvation is gained through the acquisition of divine knowledge which frees one from the illusions of darkness. Although they claim to follow Jesus Christ and His original teachings, Gnostics contradict Him at every turn. Jesus said nothing about salvation through knowledge, but by faith in Him as Savior from sin. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Furthermore, the salvation Christ offers is free and available to everyone (John 3:16), not just a select few who have acquired a special revelation.

    Christianity asserts that there is one source of Truth and that is the Bible, the inspired, inerrant Word of the living God, the only infallible rule of faith and practice (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Hebrews 4:12). It is God’s written revelation to mankind and is never superseded by man’s thoughts, ideas, writings, or visions. The Gnostics, on the other hand, use a variety of early heretical writings known as the Gnostic gospels, a collection of forgeries claiming to be “lost books of the Bible.” Thankfully, the early church fathers were nearly unanimous in recognizing these Gnostic scrolls as fraudulent forgeries that espouse false doctrines about Jesus Christ, salvation, God, and every other crucial Christian truth. There are countless contradictions between the Gnostic “gospels” and the Bible. Even when the so-called Christian Gnostics quote from the Bible, they rewrite verses and parts of verses to harmonize with their philosophy, a practice that is strictly forbidden and warned against by Scripture (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32; Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19). From the numerous uncanonical Gospels which circulated during the first centuries of the Church. First of all, they commended themselves by their tone of simplicity and truthfulness, which stood in striking contrast with the trivial, absurd, or manifestly legendary character of many of those uncanonical productions. In the next place, they had an earlier origin than most of their apocryphal rivals, and indeed many of the latter productions were directly based on the canonical Gospels. A third feature in favour of our canonical records of Christ's life was the purity of their teachings, dogmatic and moral, over against the Jewish, Gnostic, or other heretical views with which not a few of the apocryphal gospels were tainted, and on account of which these unsound writings found favour among heretical bodies and, on the contrary, discredit in the eyes of Romans . Lastly, and more particularly, the canonical Gospels were regarded as of Apostolic authority, Authority is what you alone give Christ the reference to a Gospel is the trust you share with the word . who said to “test everything. Hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21), and this we do by comparing everything to the Word of God, the only Truth. Ask why we carry so much bad is because its only in trust .Refer to the word and adjust any trust. this cut and paste is the reference to what was already written not how one might trust any words not spoken.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by george View Post
    those choices may not be so limited though (as in this or that) thats why I like to see why others have made their choice, or why they "express trust"

    recently there has been a resurgence of the flat earth thinkers, I lack trust almost completely it seems so Ive been looking at their data and you know what, some of it actually adds up!

    expressing trust seems pretty easy compared to expressing dis-trust. it is a good way to find out who is truly forgiving and genuinely honest though, I think. not very enjoyable way to be (distrustful) though, I can say that with confidence if nothing else.
    Actually, it is limited to "this or that"; there is the express trust and belief in the deity of Jesus The Christ, His birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection as told by His historically accurate and contemporary disciples, and then there is everything else. The "everything else" denies the former and it matters not what costumes they wear or what customs they practice or what claims they make; they are all from the camp of the denial of Jesus The Christ as God Incarnate. That is a fact, however, all are free to make the choice and what you choose is what you get.

    Also, any "religion" that claims certain people have higher standing and/or authority over the rest of the people is rehashing the religion of the Pharisees; the synagogue of Satan.

    As far as the flat earth goes; the bible was not meant to be a science book. However, the language in the scriptures is plain and the flat earth position was held until very recently, historically speaking. No one can say for 100% certain that the world is a sphere since the only "proof" are pictures and information provided to the people by those who vigorously hide and guard the facilities and research surrounding "space-travel" (Area 51?).

    My take on this is study who put forth the ideas of a heliocentric model and a global (spherical) earth and what/who their affiliations were. What beliefs did they, and their cohorts, hold which resulted in these ideas being put forth so widely among "intellectuals" and then fed to the "masses". Study the aspect of who benefits from these ideas and what specific faith or belief is put in question as a result of the adoption of these ideas.

    Find out the true reason why those who opposed the geocentric earth model cared so much about spreading that theory far and wide and realize the same tactic and influence was used and spread by Darwinism.
    Last edited by BLBereans; 12-28-15 at 11:15 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    Actually, it is limited to "this or that"; there is the express trust and belief in the deity of Jesus The Christ, His birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection

    i see that but speaking/writing for myself only (as much as it seems to be me anyway) cant confirm or deny at this time. I also see a claim being made here too though.


    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    as told by His historically accurate and contemporary disciples,
    it seems so but that also is another claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    and then there is everything else. The "everything else" denies the former
    yes, and this troubles me and many others I think because of how it is used as a divide and conquer tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    and it matters not what costumes they wear or what customs they practice or what claims they make;
    but they are not actually the one(s) making the claims are they? seems to me they are (sometimes at least) trying to rebut a belief or presumption but yes, they also make claims to the contrary and so in those cases they should also bear the same burden, as all other claimants, of proof.

    * thought occurs that this might have something todo with separation of church and state doctrine? hmmm..

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    they are all from the camp of the denial of Jesus The Christ as God Incarnate. That is a fact,
    I dont think it is the same "camp" and in most cases it would seem that they are not denying any facts but only beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    Also, any "religion" that claims certain people have higher standing and/or authority over the rest of the people is rehashing the religion of the Pharisees; the synagogue of Satan.
    dont they all do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    As far as the flat earth goes; the bible was not meant to be a science book. However, the language in the scriptures is plain and the flat earth position was held until very recently, historically speaking. No one can say for 100% certain that the world is a sphere since the only "proof" are pictures and information provided to the people by those who vigorously hide and guard the facilities and research surrounding "space-travel" (Area 51?).

    My take on this is study who put forth the ideas of a heliocentric model and a global (spherical) earth and what/who their affiliations were. What beliefs did they, and their cohorts, hold which resulted in these ideas being put forth so widely among "intellectuals" and then fed to the "masses". Study the aspect of who benefits from these ideas and what specific faith or belief is put in question as a result of the adoption of these ideas.

    Find out the true reason why those who opposed the geocentric earth model cared so much about spreading that theory far and wide and realize the same tactic and influence was used and spread by Darwinism.
    this whole flat earth thing is too much, Im seeing faults on both sides. certainly something to consider and keep an open mind.



    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    After all, should this be filed into the US Supreme Court under Rule 17.1 it could easily lead to hundreds of convicts, even confessed criminals demanding their cases be reviewed and retried because the judicial officers were defrauding their own courtrooms...

    What I offer in the complaint is a quiet way around all that. After all, I appreciate the Men of Violence keeping a rein on Violent Men.

    after more thought about this, if this is truly crimes in the name of justice and one has all the facts in evidence to stop this crime but chooses not to, does that not also implicate them as accessory to those same crimes? how does this "quiet way" avoid that?

    I ask these things not with any ill will or intent, towards you David, only in an effort to learn. I want to be able to help myself certainly, but also my fellow man and it seems to me that a corruption of justice would be the highest crime of all crimes so if I can learn how to be a part of the solution for the greater good, I want to do that. you seem to have something here that could possibly change everything (a few things actually) but it doesnt seem to be propagating as it should. hopefully Im just missing that propagation and it is occurring.

    theres probably a lot that is best not posted on the web i guess too but Ive got to at least make an honest effort to figure these things out. I am thankful for your efforts though, you have openly shared a whole lot of info that has helped many in many ways Im sure and I will continue to go over what you have made and kept available here but its much harder to piece it together without more you see.

    some of these "men of violence" have become violent men, lots of them lately according to independent reports and are killing many innocent men and women. I look for way to correct this problem (metro cops gone wild) and what you present seems a way to by pass it at that level and cut it of at the root brother! no? it may not have ruined your life but it has for way too many others. it cant go on like this, it cant. NO!

    well, as usual, thanks

  8. #68
    What does it mean to express trust in Jesus?

    Hopefully he will stop by and weigh in...although I hear he's been awfully busy lately mowing people's yards and blowing their loose leaves into neat little piles.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by ohiofoiarequest View Post
    What does it mean to express trust in Jesus?

    Hopefully he will stop by and weigh in...although I hear he's been awfully busy lately mowing people's yards and blowing their loose leaves into neat little piles.
    I assume your comment to be both a joke and rhetorical. Not sure about the "yards and leaves" stuff though; is that supposed to be a jab at gardeners of South American descent (Hay-soos)?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    Actually, it is limited to "this or that"; there is the express trust and belief in the deity of Jesus The Christ, His birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection
    i see that but speaking/writing for myself only (as much as it seems to be me anyway) cant confirm or deny at this time. I also see a claim being made here too though.

    Faith, trust and belief is not about "confirmation" without, it's confirmation within and that only comes when you ask and God determines you are ready to receive. It is different for everyone since we area all individual and unique children of God. It is a claim of faith made by choice; we were created with the freedom to choose and that makes all the difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    as told by His historically accurate and contemporary disciples,
    it seems so but that also is another claim.

    It is. However, the more uncovering and discovery occurs, the more evidence arises of the accuracy of biblical accounts. There are countless scientists and archeologists out there to research and study if one has the inclination and desire for truth.


    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    and then there is everything else. The "everything else" denies the former
    yes, and this troubles me and many others I think because of how it is used as a divide and conquer tactic.

    More of a unite and conquer tactic against ALL that is evil as per the original intent and message of Jesus of Nazareth. History shows He made it clear who He was/is and He was crucified for it. One either believes in Him or not; sometimes things are black and white.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    and it matters not what costumes they wear or what customs they practice or what claims they make;
    but they are not actually the one(s) making the claims are they? seems to me they are (sometimes at least) trying to rebut a belief or presumption but yes, they also make claims to the contrary and so in those cases they should also bear the same burden, as all other claimants, of proof.

    * thought occurs that this might have something todo with separation of church and state doctrine? hmmm.

    It all stems from the original lie in the garden; an evil polemic of the adversary against Him who created ALL things. The original "religion" of man started in Babylon which used, continued and expanded the original lie into an evil empire "hell bent" on gathering all people in rebellion against God. When God scattered them and confused their languages, each division kept a piece of the original "religion" of Babylon and the transformation into the many "religions" of man ensued. The end-time goal for the evil one(s) is to gather everyone back together and unite once again to fight THE battle against God and His anointed Son, King and High Priest - Jesus The Christ.

    The supposed "separation of church and state" doctrine must be studied through the eyes and minds of the original writers of the founding documents of this nation. What was the culture and motivation behind the establishment clause and the freedom to practice religion sentiment. Was it to protect government from religion or the other way around? When one studies the reasons why they left England and desired to become separate from the King's rule, the answer is clear.


    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    they are all from the camp of the denial of Jesus The Christ as God Incarnate. That is a fact,
    I dont think it is the same "camp" and in most cases it would seem that they are not denying any facts but only beliefs.

    A denial is a denial. One either believes Jesus was/is who He is or not. The "That is a fact" comment is regarding the denial, not any provable fact regarding Jesus' nature which can only come by faith and trust in God.


    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    Also, any "religion" that claims certain people have higher standing and/or authority over the rest of the people is rehashing the religion of the Pharisees; the synagogue of Satan.
    dont they all do that?

    Mostly, yes. However, the true teachings of Jesus makes it clear that we are all saints and we are all of equal value in the Body even though we may have different talents and purposes in this life. There is a respect for "elders" as experience and wisdom should be honored and acknowledged, but that is just common sense isn't it? The office of Pastor, Minister, Priest, Reverand, etc in the modern era are all remnants of the Roman civil rule and hierarchy system.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
    As far as the flat earth goes; the bible was not meant to be a science book. However, the language in the scriptures is plain and the flat earth position was held until very recently, historically speaking. No one can say for 100% certain that the world is a sphere since the only "proof" are pictures and information provided to the people by those who vigorously hide and guard the facilities and research surrounding "space-travel" (Area 51?).

    My take on this is study who put forth the ideas of a heliocentric model and a global (spherical) earth and what/who their affiliations were. What beliefs did they, and their cohorts, hold which resulted in these ideas being put forth so widely among "intellectuals" and then fed to the "masses". Study the aspect of who benefits from these ideas and what specific faith or belief is put in question as a result of the adoption of these ideas.

    Find out the true reason why those who opposed the geocentric earth model cared so much about spreading that theory far and wide and realize the same tactic and influence was used and spread by Darwinism.
    this whole flat earth thing is too much, Im seeing faults on both sides. certainly something to consider and keep an open mind.

    Yes, it is too much. The eye test usually tells the story though. Do you really think that both you, I and the whole earth are spinning so rapidly and constantly at all times that you just can't feel it?
    Last edited by BLBereans; 12-29-15 at 03:54 PM.

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