Lawful Money and Ownership

[David Merrill]

I should interject some Crosstalk - a revelation:

However, we have a choice - to make a demand or not to make a demand. To mark something Redeemed is a trespass. Nobody has granted me the right to Redeem any Federal Reserve Note. I can only make my demand.

[doug555]

However, we have a choice - to make a demand or not to make a demand. To mark something Redeemed is a trespass. Nobody has granted me the right to Redeem any Federal Reserve Note. I can only make my demand.

I should interject some Crosstalk - a revelation:

This is exactly why I do NOT write anything but my signature on the back of the check. I believe the back of the check belongs to them.

12 USC 411 makes no requirement on where the demand is written. There is no implementing CFR for this statute, so it is up to us to decide how and where.

All we need is a substantive record of it being made in the normal course of business, which are records that fit the exception to the hearsay rule of evidence at FRCP Rule 803 (6).

[Michael Joseph]

This is exactly why I do NOT write anything but my signature on the back of the check. I believe the back of the check belongs to them.

12 USC 411 makes no requirement on where the demand is written. There is no implementing CFR for this statute, so it is up to us to decide how and where.

All we need is a substantive record of it being made in the normal course of business, which are records that fit the exception to the hearsay rule of evidence at FRCP Rule 803 (6).

One who knows what one is doing would have no problem, as 12USC411 does not respect persons and does not specify the nature of the demand. But thinking of how my actions might impair another, I would not want to do something that leaves a presumption only to find that someone has food on their table for their children based on a faulty presumption. So I believe being a good steward requires a public notice. However, I do see your point - and you are right - the location where the Demand is lodged is not mandated at law. We clearly see this expression in the FEDERAL REGISTER.

SO THEN: Remedy is between our ears.

However for the newbie, developing an Administrative written remedy is most times what is needed. I liken my response to the following:


There once were 5000 men - probably at least 20k in terms of men, women and children - who came out to hear Yehoshuah speak. As the day grew on, they began to get hungry. So then, Yehoshuah performs a miracle over five loaves and two fishes. The disciples then perform the work in handing out the food. Now then, many just came for the free fish sandwich; HOWEVER some came for the message!

Many just want the free fish sandwich and will jump headlong into whatever guru is offering the latest; you know them. Ask them to explain what it means to make a demand for lawful money - just sit back and watch the BLANK expression form. But one who studies to show himself approved, is going to comprehend even the minute nuances.

Shalom,
MJ


EXCELLENT FIND - thank you.

(6) Records of a Regularly Conducted Activity. A record of an act, event, condition, opinion, or diagnosis if:

(A) the record was made at or near the time by — or from information transmitted by — someone with knowledge;

(B) the record was kept in the course of a regularly conducted activity of a business, organization, occupation, or calling, whether or not for profit;

(C) making the record was a regular practice of that activity;

(D) all these conditions are shown by the testimony of the custodian or another qualified witness, or by a certification that complies with Rule 902(11) or (12) or with a statute permitting certification; and

(E) neither the source of information nor the method or circumstances of preparation indicate a lack of trustworthiness.

[Keith Alan]

This is exactly why I do NOT write anything but my signature on the back of the check. I believe the back of the check belongs to them.

Isn't the front of a check the public side, and the back the private? That's how I understand it.

[David Merrill]

I think the important point is that no judge wants it in his court so that he becomes the name interpreting the law.

That is an interesting and ongoing exploration about the $46 Miscellaneous Case evidence repository for the Notice and Demand. Even that may not be necessary if you want to notify the Fed. That is what the Fed Act says. It is about who the FRN's are issued to - there are restrictions about who the FRNs may be issued to. If you want them issued to you for your labor then you become by presumption that sort of entity.

What sort of entity?

Well, around here if my ego may speak for StSC, State Banks. But as common practice (law) that would come out of some high-falutin' federal judge's mouth and I will just bet that they have a conflict of interest being taxpaying revinooers (remember Snuffy SMITH in a flurry of shotgun blasts?). So until one of them black-robed cross dressing attorneys will say it, I guess we get my way.


P.S. Does anybody know why we cannot see the "Saving to Suitors' Club banner?

[mikecz]

Ok brain trust here goes,

As a landlord, I receive all forms of payment, I wish I could fix this issue, but be that as it may, and being a member of the club, I've grown to find a particular interest in each type.

Today I received 3 different forms of payment. I don't think people quite understand how different each is, but I digress. I'm sort of in a tailspin here but...

I received a check, I'm not sure if it's business or personal, because in the "name" line above the address (top left corner), is the guys name then "dba" his business. Either way, to my knowledge, this is a negotiable instrument, as it's a promise to pay, I can sign it over and issue it to someone else, etc. Really it's worthless in my eyes UNTIL I negotiate it with someone else. That can be negotiated with a deposit in my bank, I could sign it over to someone else for a car payment, etc. The conclusion I've come to after being a member of this site, I'm looking at this piece of paper, it's worthless, it doesn't represent any income. If I trash it and shred it right now, I've received no funds, and most importantly, no funds have been withdrawn from my tenants account. Further, what if this "negotiable" instrument I decide to negotiate for a good or service. Now, I've received a service for that instrument, in my eyes since the funds weren't withdrawn, for free. What if this check keeps getting negotiated and never is deposited? What if someone buys the instrument with Federal Reserve notes? What if someone else then buys the instrument for more federal reserve notes? In that sense, aren't they simply "cashing the check". It generates cash transactions without ever being withdrawn from my tenants account. I mean hell, this is a form of currency. If it never gets deposited, never withdrawn, in a sense, we have just "grown" our currency by $1,240, the amount on the check. I guess I'm running down this trail because if this isn't negotiated with a bank, you can see it really doesn't represent any value... (Could you imagine if you could just write a bunch of checks, have them negotiated down the line, and never have the funds withdrawn from your account? hint hint, federal reserve, redeemable money...)

Next, I received a Post Office money order. After inspecting the lovely piece of parchment, I discovered something wonderful. The words "Pay to", "US dollars and cents", "Clerk" (I'm assuming could sign for it.) Now, this is a completely different animal. Cash must be used to "buy" this negotiable instrument. It is a cash equivalent of sorts. The the US dollars and cents was a wonderful thing to see. In this case, I'm not sure if I need a stamp, but for good measure, I slam it on there. But, this instrument, upon endorsement, does it become reservable? ITS LAWFUL MONEY!

The last is FRN, cash. Now, there is no way to track this sort of income from the Feds, if I don't deposit it, there is no real taxable transaction, because, once again, I have not contracted to have my money privately manipulated.

[Michael Joseph]

I remember one day I received a check and I lacked a means to cash it due to a lack of ID so then I decided to experiment so I wrote on the back of the check

Demand is made for Lawful Money per 12USC411 and absent accommodation and without recourse by: Signature
PAY TO THE ORDER OF ABC, LLC

See what I did? I negotiated the Instrument and Assigned it - instead of depositing it or cashing it! Works just fine. No need to Order up any new Credit....

You might consider looking up ALLONGE - CLICK ME

Shalom,
MJ