What you think, folks?

[Michael Corbin]

Looking for any helpful opinions here. I started redeeming lawful money in May 2011. I am a contractor and had a 1099 to resolve at tax time in April 2012. I filled out the paperwork
1040 per John Henry Doe, and didn't owe any tax. July 2012, I got a notice for an amended return and a pamphlet on why we have to pay taxes. Against my better judgement, I sent them another return and actually some tax ($2300.00), with the idea that I perhaps owed tax on the income up until redeeming lawful money. September 2012 I got a notice saying thank you, your taxes are paid in full, but we are hitting you with a $5000.00 penalty. (I should note the request for amended return gave a due by date or there would be a 5K penalty. I had sent the amended return First Class Mail in the time required.) So I sent a form 843 Request For Abatement with the reasons being I had complied in time frame and the whole lawful money bit. Got a letter back in October saying it needed to be researched and we'd get back to you in 45 days. Didn't hear anything else until February 4, 2013 when mailman caught me on a Saturday with a certified notice Intent To Levy State Tax Refund. I thought that was odd, since I haven't had any state tax refunds for years. Anyway, that Monday I R4C the notice and went to create a Miscellaneous jacket. Found out I had to do that in main branch next county over, so I was really pushed for time as I had only taken a couple hours off from work. The gals at court house were clueless, and told me that I could only do a miscellaneous filing if there was an existing court case, which there is not. So I ended up returning the R4C and a notarized Notice And Demand document for my bank account I created in September 2012. I returned them and wrote on the documents date and certified mail #. Today, I get home and there is a card from mailman saying I need to pick up a certified letter at post office. (The only people who would be sending me certified letters at this time is IRS.) Do you folks think I should go ahead and get a LoR prepared before receiving the letter? Should I even waste anymore time on this?(I was forced into bankruptcy several years ago and lost house, business, life savings, etc. Only thing in my name is a 1999 car and I have other transportation. Only ever put more than $1000.00 in my one bank account when I write rent check.) Just putting it out there to see if I should even waste anymore time on this. And yes, I will be doing my April 1040 with 100% lawful money noted, so I don't plan on paying any taxes again.

[David Merrill]

Hi Michael Corbin;


I am glad that you have decided to post aloud about the redeeming drama. From the details you have given it seems as though the IRS is working with the State in a tag team fashion. According to the 834 Abatement thread here, that example with the medical firm anyway the IRS is compelled to abate the $5K fine and they just don't want to say so. But the State tax attorneys know that they can badger you and even prosecute so that you must get an IRS agent onto the stand to testify that you have no federal liability, therefore you have no state liability. It seems to be abandoned practice in Colorado but they tried it here several years ago.

Being Friday I think you can open it and file the LoR Monday or Tuesday if you want to. Please tell us what is inside?

[David Lyn]

You have to prove you DON'T have a liability? That is backwards....

[Michael Corbin]

Hey, thanks for the quick response. In viewing some of the documents here, it actually seems to me the civil action filing is what is most appropriate... in reading the LoR it seems that is to be a counterclaim to a given case. So far, there is no case filed. So unless someone tells me I'm completely off base, I'll write up the civil action suit this weekend with attachments being 1040, form 843, notice and demand, and copies of previous and current R4C. Perhaps I'll get the honor of serving the first summons to our new Treasury Secretary?

[David Merrill]

You have to prove you DON'T have a liability? That is backwards....

That is the strategy behind the State attacking for the Feds. The State trundles along presuming you have a federal tax liability.

Hey, thanks for the quick response. In viewing some of the documents here, it actually seems to me the civil action filing is what is most appropriate... in reading the LoR it seems that is to be a counterclaim to a given case. So far, there is no case filed. So unless someone tells me I'm completely off base, I'll write up the civil action suit this weekend with attachments being 1040, form 843, notice and demand, and copies of previous and current R4C. Perhaps I'll get the honor of serving the first summons to our new Treasury Secretary?

The fact is that they did not file in the district court prior to the claim. However the mail/administrative process is the district court in miniature considering that the mailbox is federal property/enclave. That is covered albeit with my understanding many years ago in the Instructions at the end of the LoR.

Because you are going forth on the website alone you should understand that the LoR is going to be dismissed. The objective is to form the record. You seem to understand all that so thank you for sharing the experience.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Michael Corbin]

Just to follow up: I got my civil suit filed (evidence repository) this afternoon. Considering I've been redeeming lawful money for going on 2 years, I really should have done it sooner. But hey, you know how it goes.... why spend the $350.00 unless there's a need. So inside, I really feel great as I know I have a voice now that will be heard. Also the ladies behind the desk were very helpful once I treated them with kindness and respect. They actually helped redact some social security numbers and things that they were worried being available for the world. Also looked up addresses and helped me fill out forms to the Attorney General and local US attorney as well, as they said those guys should be notified as well. The more the merrier I say. Two things I just wanted to pass on: they told me they are seeing a lot of push back lately by the feds on these refusals not being documented properly. (A confirmation of what David Merrill has been teaching us on proper record keeping.) The one gal actually told me how to go about bringing in presentments before mailing them off so they could be entered in the record properly. The second point is they were totally surprised I was paying for this case. (A check from my lawful money account.) I asked do you get a lot of people suing the US gov't... she said oh you wouldn't believe how many. Important point: None of them usually pay to file the case, choosing to take the option of allowing a judge to determine if they qualify to have the fees waived. Now I didn't ask what kind of cases these were, but seems to me from the studying of the last few years, that would be accepting a benefit and shooting yourself in the foot. Just a word to the newbies on this. Just wanted to pass on some info for the mix, as every ones experiences here have taught and encouraged me to pursue this. I think we should all stand up to the system in whatever small way we can.

[Michael Corbin]

Follow up: Today I got home and found a letter in my mail from IRS that they have changed the civil penalty of $5000.00 to $0.00. How cool is that? The letter is dated April 1, 2013. Not sure how that works. Anyway just wanted to say thanks for all the help...

[gdude]

Follow up: Today I got home and found a letter in my mail from IRS that they have changed the civil penalty of $5000.00 to $0.00. How cool is that? The letter is dated April 1, 2013. Not sure how that works. Anyway just wanted to say thanks for all the help...

That was a quick turnaround, a little more than 10 days and auntie backed down?! Do you think it is because of your letter that included your Demand and 843 or did you notice them with the LoR?

[David Merrill]

You are welcome and I am very pleased that record forming is that powerful and effective!

[Michael Corbin]

Sorry, gdude... only now checking back to site. I can only suspect the change of direction was simply receiving my R4C documents and the Notice and Demand. I did not get a chance to notify anyone of the court case I filed before I received the zero balance due notice.