Diminished Money Counterclaim

[David Merrill]

I think you are disingenuous.

[ManOntheLand]

I think you are disingenuous.

Here we go again. How have I offended you this time? Perhaps we can more efficiently work through ideas here if we refrain from attacking each other's motives and focus on the ideas. Or is it just easier to attack me? How are you any better than the Quatloos folks when you resort to such tactics?

What is it you disagree with exactly? The suggestion to use an 843 to claim FICA refund? Or the idea that a suitor is entitled to a refund of FICA in the first place?

I am not sure if a suitor is entitled to refund of FICA or not. But I am pretty sure it is a bad idea to claim such a refund on 1040. I don't want to find out I am not entitled to FICA refund by getting hit with a frivolous return penalty. Thus the 843 suggestion. To be honest, I have not tried it myself. I can tell you that an otherwise frivolous return suddenly became not a frivolous return to IRS when I removed the claim for FICA refund.

I believe you have expressed your position that FICA is a legitimate tax, so maybe that's the problem?

My mental model is this: I believe FICA is legitimate only to the extent there is a transfer with respect to "employment" i.e. a trade or business within the U.S. Based on what I have learned here, other than payment from the employer being a transfer of FRN's, how would a private sector job be a "trade or business within the U.S."?

The employer is liable for the employment taxes. Employer pays half of it, and withholds the other half from your paycheck. On the employer's end, he is taxed for the transfer of FRN's to the employee. On the employee's end it is a tax based on the amount of FRN's being received. If the suitor redeems all such payments for lawful money, then the suitor has not in fact received any "wages" that would subject the suitor to FICA tax.

In any case, I cannot be compelled to participate in FICA. I cannot even be compelled to give the employer a SSN. He may be required to ask for one. He cannot be penalized if I do not provide one. He may be required to withhold FICA regardless. But if I did not provide a number it is pretty clear I am not trying to contribute to SS, and I have every right to a refund of those amounts. Am I missing something?

I really am here to learn. And to share my experiences and conclusions. If you object to what I said, I am all ears.