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Thread: New World Banking Order?

  1. #11
    Crozier to Monetary Commission Feb 3 1912 http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=qSs5AAAAMAAJ

    Alfred Owen Crozier (1863-1939) was a Midwest attorney who wrote eight books on the political, legal, and monetary problems of the United States.[1] He is best known for his work US Money Vs Corporation Currency, "Aldrich Plan," Wall Street Confessions! Great Bank Combine (1912), which argues against the formation of The Federal Reserve.

    He feared national banking, but he feared private control of the United States money system even more.

    He also wrote The Magnet: A Romance of the Battles of Modern Giants (1908), Nation of Nations: The Way to Permanent Peace; A Supreme Constitution for the Government of Governments (1914), League of Nations: Shall It Be an Alliance, or a Nation of Nations? Must Be One or the Other! (1919), What Ails our Country?: Cause of and Cure for Booms, Crashes, Depressions and Bank Failures (1933).
    Last edited by Chex; 11-11-13 at 04:15 PM.

  2. #12

    One key distinction to make is that fine gold and fine silver weren't ever money in the United States. Coins minted and duly stamped were and are money. Raw precious metals aren't money. The fiat (decree) making silver coin of a certain type money makes even silver dollars money by fiat. The perceived value of fine silver or of fine gold is one thing. But it is the markings, the guarantee made by the mint that gives the coin value. The value of the fine metal in the coin is a separate matter to its value as currency or money. Gold and silver or corn or sea shells being satisfactory as exchangeable commodities is a different matter from fiat money/currency.



    As to value, that comes from the artificers and laborers not from the banks. A key thing to comprehend is that the fiat among artificers and laborers is that they wont levy charges of theft when given the money/currency declared by fiat (fiat meaning decree not fraud). Furthermore, fiat currency/money most always serves for payment of taxes.

    I suggest that the problem with paper money is when only a select few are able to make use of money issuance. Consider 1% of the population knowing how to issue money and 1% controlling every productive activity vs 70% of the population knowing how to issue money and 70% of the population controlling productive activity and enthusiastic about making their own society work. Key point: the problem has been the education system in the United States of America has been designed to keep most people in the dark as to what money is:


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    Of course, consider if you were at an arcade or at a carnival: the tokens are only as good as the quality of the games, rides or entertainment. If most US-ians just are into goofing off, being lazy, being unproductive then utility of even gold coin or silver coin would be what? If there was nothing decent to buy or trade the coins for, what good would the coins be? The quality of the 'arcade' or 'market' has to do with the people. And of course the problem in the USA IMHO has not been lazy people. Its been that the banks and the FRB have deliberately kept folks from being able to access capital equipment and resources for their own productivity. There are MANY willing to be productive, but the obstacle has been that banks and businesses have been DELIBERATELY obstructing trade.

    There are those who would swear up and down that its "capitalism" thats been the problem. Nope. The American free market mindset has produced excess and abundance of equipment (cars, clothes, etc). But its been those with hard-core Communist mindsets (in control of the United States) that have been making a point to block equipment getting into the hands of the people that need it. Who would figure that free market system in the hands of tyrants could ever serve as 'proof' of "free market's failure"? America has been able to be very charitable to the entire planet. America is even on the record in the British Parliament as saving Europe's ass during the famines that swept Europe.

    So, why are there hundreds of cars on a car lot and few people able to acquire them? Analysis shows that it has been the FRB and banks that have made a point to see to it that currency flows AWAY FROM where its needed!

    On the matter of gold and silver coin. After much analysis, it seems that a key problem with gold and silver coin is when the meltdown value is far higher than the coin face value there would be a tendency for the coins to be taken out of circulation which does what good?

    What US-ians unfortunately allowed was for a handful of persons to control industry and money. Evidence shows such didn't necessarily occur solely through dictatorial strong-arming but by DUMBING PEOPLE DOWN. Instead of viewing paper money with despise, perhaps the problem is that people haven't been taking advantage of what is available to them.

    It'd be great to see, $5, $20 and $50 coins in circulation. Putting a fine gold $5 coin in circulation when the melt value is ~20 times the face value is a joke (maybe even a sick, sick joke!)--they are giving away the gold at over a 95% discount or they are putting the coins so far out of reach to be worthless as a means of exchange. But AFAIK the bankers have been against $5, $20 and $50 alloy coins. I'd even prefer poker chip type coins over paper FRNs. However, I suspect its been ignorance, lack of knowledge and darkness that has been part of America's ills rather than paper money. Paper money in the hands of a diligent society can be great--because then its more along the lines of mutual forgiveness, discharge for the benefit of all involved (i.e. as long as the guy that wants to clean streets has what he needs and so long as the gal that wants to design skyscrapers has what she needs its all good--without productivity would there be any thing to tax or anything to buy?). Paper money in the hands of an enemy that despises you: different story.

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    Last edited by allodial; 11-13-13 at 09:19 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  3. #13
    bobbinville
    Guest
    Actually, the word "dollar" comes from the word "thaler". In old Bohemia, now part of the Czech Republic, silver mines allowed the minting of "thalers" which soon became renowned for their weight and purity. They were known as "Joachimsthalers". The thalers became so widespread that Austria minted the "Maria Theresa Thaler" (David Merrill's avatar is based on it); and in some tribal communities restruck MTTs are still used as money.

    The word came to us via the Spanish 8 Reales coin, which like the MTT was trusted for its weight and purity. This coin was known as the Spanish Milled Dollar, which to remedy a lack of small change was sometimes cut into 8 "bits" -- thus, "two bits" were a quarter of a dollar.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbinville View Post
    Actually, the word "dollar" comes from the word "thaler". In old Bohemia, now part of the Czech Republic, silver mines allowed the minting of "thalers" which soon became renowned for their weight and purity. They were known as "Joachimsthalers". The thalers became so widespread that Austria minted the "Maria Theresa Thaler" (David Merrill's avatar is based on it); and in some tribal communities restruck MTTs are still used as money.

    The word came to us via the Spanish 8 Reales coin, which like the MTT was trusted for its weight and purity. This coin was known as the Spanish Milled Dollar, which to remedy a lack of small change was sometimes cut into 8 "bits" -- thus, "two bits" were a quarter of a dollar.
    Thal is German for "dale" or "dell"; they all mean "valley".
    Let's see how 'thaler' is related to dell and to valley and to tally and to bill. <3 Linguistics. Every time you make a tally mark you make an impression or a little valley (rhymes with tally!) on the paper, wood or whatever it is. The meaning of "thaler" is important: plate (think die or casting or impression), depression, valley or impression is what matters. Plate is used to make an impression or is made from an impression or casting no? Valley, depression, impression, tally. Tellers (talliers) make impressions (valleys) in paper to keep track of things no and to maintain accounts, no?



    Perhaps thaler/dale is not named just for the trees but for the impression or depression. A tally mark in wood would be quite an impression or a valley, no?

    Dell - Old English dell "dell, hollow, dale" (perhaps lost and then borrowed in Middle English from cognate Middle Dutch/Middle Low German delle), from Proto-Germanic *daljo (cf. German Delle "dent, depression," Gothic ib-dalja "slope of a mountain"); related to dale (q.v.).
    dale (n.) Look up dale at Dictionary.com
    Old English dæl "dale, valley, gorge," from Proto-Germanic *dalan "valley" (cf. Old Saxon, Dutch, Gothic dal, Old Norse dalr, Old High German tal, German Tal "valley"), from PIE *dhel- "a hollow" (cf. Old Church Slavonic dolu "pit," Russian dol "valley"). Preserved from extinction by Norse influence in north of England.
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    U.S. currency involves a plate making an impression or valleys/dells/depressions in paper. Perhaps wood taken from the dale may have long ago been used to make tally sticks or tally plates. Perhaps wood from the dale might be today used to make dollars or umm impressions or umm depressions or ..rather vallleys in paper with rivers of ink?



    Dealers and tellers have something in common: they keep accounts (tally).

    billet (n.1) Look up billet at Dictionary.com
    thick stick of wood, mid-15c., from Middle French billette, diminutive of bille "stick of wood" (see billiards).
    Think: bill as in bill of exchange.

    bullion (n.) Look up bullion at Dictionary.com
    early 15c., "uncoined gold or silver," from Anglo-French bullion "bar of precious metal," also "place where coins are made, mint," perhaps, through the notion of "melting," from Old French boillir "to boil," from Latin bullire "boil" (see boil (v.)). But perhaps it is rather from Old French bille "stick, block of wood" (see billiards).
    Also noteworthy: Valley / bille [v and b and w having phonetic relation]--wallet (its a ditch or a valley or depression for putting things in). Bullion tends to be marked/stamped with plates...impressions (i.e. little valleys) made into it. Dollar bills and Deutch Marks are made with plates which make impressions into the paper. The words plate has 'tal' in reverse in the middle--some words in Chaldee or Hebrew or other left-to-right-read languages were carried over into other languages which were read right to left. Tablet has 'tel' in reverse at the end. Linking dollar to accounting and tally marks seem to be at the root of it all and not just that: it provides the most light and insight of all!

    (Deutsch) Mark / (U.S.) tally. Simple. Russian Ruble = Ruble is related to tearing or ripping. So is slash. Tally marks are slashes.

    slash (n.) Look up slash at Dictionary.com
    "a cutting stroke with a weapon," 1570s, from slash (v.); sense of "slit in a garment" is from 1610s; that of "open tract in a forest" is first attested 1825, American English. As a punctuation mark in writing or printing, it is recorded from 1961.
    ruble (n.) Look up ruble at Dictionary.com
    unit of the Russian monetary system, 1550s, via French rouble, from Russian rubl', perhaps from Old Russian rubiti "to chop, cut, hew," so called because the original metallic currency of Russia (14c.) consisted of silver bars, from which the necessary amount was cut off; from Proto-Slavic *rub-, from PIE root *reub-, *reup- "to snatch" (see rip (v.)).
    Notches made into wood tally blocks or plates were CUTS/SLASHES/GROOVES/VALLEYS/DELLS. U.S tally; Deutch mark/tally/slash; Russian rip/slash. Its all about accounting.

    Even the word 'gold' is related to the word for 'yield'. Yield as in like render.

    yield (v.) Look up yield at Dictionary.com
    Old English geldan (Anglian), gieldan (West Saxon) "to pay" (class III strong verb; past tense geald, past participle golden), from Proto-Germanic *geldanan "pay" (cf. Old Saxon geldan "to be worth," Old Norse gjaldo "to repay, return," Middle Dutch ghelden, Dutch gelden "to cost, be worth, concern," Old High German geltan, German gelten "to be worth," Gothic fra-gildan "to repay, requite").

    Perhaps from PIE *ghel-to- "I pay," found only in Balto-Slavic and Germanic, unless Old Church Slavonic zledo, Lithuanian geliuoti are Germanic loan-words. Sense developed in English via use to translate Latin reddere, French rendre, and had expanded by c.1300 to "repay, return, render (service), produce, surrender." Related to Middle Low German and Middle Dutch gelt, Dutch geld, German Geld "money." Yielding in sense of "giving way to physical force" is recorded from 1660s.
    Its all about accounting and courts of record.

    Not convinced?

    mark (n.2) Look up mark at Dictionary.com
    "unit of money or weight," late Old English marc, a unit of weight (chiefly for gold or silver) equal to about eight ounces, probably from Old Norse mörk "unit of weight," cognate with German Mark, probably ultimately a derivative of mark (n.1), perhaps in sense of "imprinted weight or coin." Used from 18c. in reference to various continental coinages, especially. the silver coin of Germany first issued 1875.
    mark (n.1) Look up mark at Dictionary.com
    "trace, impression," Old English mearc (West Saxon), merc (Mercian) "boundary, sign, limit, mark," from Proto-Germanic *marko (cf. Old Norse merki "boundary, sign," mörk "forest," which often marked a frontier; Old Frisian merke, Gothic marka "boundary, frontier," Dutch merk "mark, brand," German Mark "boundary, boundary land"), from PIE *merg- "edge, boundary, border" (cf. Latin margo "margin;" Avestan mareza- "border," Old Irish mruig, Irish bruig "borderland," Welsh bro "district").

    The primary sense is probably "boundary," which had evolved by Old English through "sign of a boundary," through "sign in general," then to "impression or trace forming a sign." Meaning "any visible trace or impression" first recorded c.1200. Sense of "line drawn to indicate starting point of a race" (e.g. on your marks ...) first attested 1887. The Middle English sense of "target" (c.1200) is the notion in marksman and slang sense "victim of a swindle" (1883). The notion of "sign, token" is behind the meaning "numerical award given by a teacher" (1829). Influenced by Scandinavian cognates.
    tale (n.) Look up tale at Dictionary.com
    Old English talu "story, tale, the action of telling," from Proto-Germanic *talo (cf. Dutch taal "speech, language"), from PIE root *del- "to recount, count." The secondary English sense of "number, numerical reckoning" (c.1200) probably was the primary one in Germanic; cf. teller (see tell) and Old Frisian tale, Middle Dutch tal "number," Old Saxon tala "number," Old High German zala, German Zahl "number."

    The ground sense of the Modern English word in its main meaning, then, might have been "an account of things in their due order." Related to talk and tell. Meaning "things divulged that were given secretly, gossip" is from mid-14c.; first record of talebearer "tattletale" is late 15c.
    Accounting; courts of record.

    Related: Early Accounting: The Tally and Checkerboard.

    P.S. the 'franc' or 'frank' in French Franc has to do with marks, stamps, impressions or tallies. The 'mark' or 'tally' being perhaps indicative of measure. Case closed.
    Last edited by allodial; 11-12-13 at 06:35 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #15
    I suggest that the problem with paper money is when only a select few are able to make use of money issuance. Consider 1% of the population knowing how to issue money and 1% controlling every productive activity vs 70% of the population knowing how to issue money and 70% of the population controlling productive activity and enthusiastic about making their own society work. Key point: the problem has been the education system in the states of America has been designed to keep most people in the dark as to what money is:
    The largest note ever printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing was the $100,000 Gold Certificate, Series 1934. These notes were printed from December 18, 1934 through January 9, 1935 and were issued by the Treasurer of the United States to Federal Reserve Banks only against an equal amount of gold bullion held by the Treasury. These notes were used for transactions between FRBs and were not circulated among the general public. http://nutmegcollector.blogspot.com/...1_archive.html

    DO NOT BID IF YOU WANT A REAL ORIGINAL NOTE! AN ORIGINAL UNCIRCULATED NOTE COULD COST OVER $750,000 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1934-100-000...-/260650967960

    LOL Yea like I want to spend $750,000 on a piece of paper.

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    Last edited by Chex; 11-11-13 at 09:25 PM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    The largest note ever printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing was the $100,000 Gold Certificate, Series 1934. These notes were printed from December 18, 1934 through January 9, 1935 and were issued by the Treasurer of the United States to Federal Reserve Banks only against an equal amount of gold bullion held by the Treasury. These notes were used for transactions between FRBs and were not circulated among the general public. http://nutmegcollector.blogspot.com/...1_archive.html
    However, promissory notes are issued most every single time someone sits down to make a 'car loan' or a 'mortgage'. Major companies issue billion dollar notes occasionally. In order for the U.S. Treasury or w/e to issue ____ in coins, it might just require someone to put something of value before they give something of value in return. Money exists for facilitating exchange of services and assets and for payment of taxes rather than for its own sake. What the government can or cannot do is one thing. What the private side can do is another.
    Last edited by allodial; 11-11-13 at 10:26 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    The FSIA was passed to provide remedy ...
    The FSIA's relevance is very much so. Fixation on gold ore or silver or wood or paper distracts from getting to the heart of what money is. Sure, just weights and balances are important. Lawful money preferred over clearinghouse certificates (FRNs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    In essence, when Parliament passed and later tried to enforce legislation affecting America, they simply did not have the power to do so. The acts of Parliament were meaningless and rightfully disregarded by Americans. They were acutely cognizant that Parliament had no more right to ose their will upon America than the King of Spain or the King of France or the long-dead Senate of Rome for that matter.
    It was put plainly in an old text that King of England was by default and inherently a principal conservator of the peace. The conservator of the peace having a duty to conserve the peace many not necessarily have power to impoverish and may have a duty to avoid promoting economic instability--if not to promote prosperity to eat least to preserve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    In America and abroad to some extent we have United States currency notes. Given some time I could grab the citation but as I recall postage stamps, USPS Money Orders, Special Drawing Rights (SDR's) and pursuant to notes of 31 USC §5115 US notes are now included pegged to the value of FRN's by a name substitution. Both the latter are a bane to honest balances and are cause disease.
    Interestingly, in New Zealand the post office is involved in the issuance of coins.

    New Zealand Post is proud to be the only official issuer of New Zealand legal tender collectable coins in partnership with the Reserve Bank of New Zealand.
    Last edited by allodial; 11-12-13 at 10:52 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  8. #18

  9. #19
    The article referred to in this post gives insight to what happened in the 1960s (likely orchestrated event) when the melt value of silver in the pre-1962 U.S. silver dollars exceeded the face value of the coins.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    Crozier to Monetary Commission Feb 3 1912 http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=qSs5AAAAMAAJ

    Alfred Owen Crozier (1863-1939) was a Midwest attorney who wrote eight books on the political, legal, and monetary problems of the United States.[1] He is best known for his work US Money Vs Corporation Currency, "Aldrich Plan," Wall Street Confessions! Great Bank Combine (1912), which argues against the formation of The Federal Reserve.

    He feared national banking, but he feared private control of the United States money system even more.

    He also wrote The Magnet: A Romance of the Battles of Modern Giants (1908), Nation of Nations: The Way to Permanent Peace; A Supreme Constitution for the Government of Governments (1914), League of Nations: Shall It Be an Alliance, or a Nation of Nations? Must Be One or the Other! (1919), What Ails our Country?: Cause of and Cure for Booms, Crashes, Depressions and Bank Failures (1933).
    You might find the writings of James Graham Cannon might be a bit more practical as to operations, application and law rather than being political.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

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