Question regarding 42 USC § 408

[christopher george]

from http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...8----000-.html


TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 7 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 408 PENALTIES

(a) In general
Whoever—
(8) discloses, uses, or compels the disclosure of the social security number of any person in violation of the laws of the United States;
shall be guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.


What is meant by "in violation of the laws of the United States"? Does it mean if there is no requirement to provide a ssn in a particular statute then someone compelling you to give a ssn is in violation?

Sorry for the stupid question but the wording of that code has me a bit puzzled as to the intent.

[shikamaru]

"... in violation of the laws of the United States;"
"... in violation with regard to the laws belonging to the United States;"
"... in violation of federal laws;"

[David Merrill]

"... in violation of the laws of the United States;"
"... in violation with regard to the laws belonging to the United States;"
"... in violation of federal laws;"

Ingriguing! Can you please describe distinctions or similarities?

[shikamaru]

Ingriguing! Can you please describe distinctions or similarities?

Courtesy of "the Informer"....

When something is said to be of something else, that can mean belonging to, possession.

Of is a pretty loaded term... even in a law dictionary.

I imagine statutory interpretation of the term 'of' is even more loaded.

[Hexify]

Sounds like any law they find to charge you under. Pretty standard practice

[shikamaru]

Sounds like any law they find to charge you under. Pretty standard practice

In this case, that section seems to be a penal statute.
I wonder how many convictions have been sustained on that passage?

Does it mean if there is no requirement to provide a ssn in a particular statute then someone compelling you to give a ssn is in violation?

There is no requirement to provide your SSN upon demand or inquiry.
In counterpoint, the counter party can refuse you service, however, for failure to provide.

1. An SSN is not yours
2. SS is a benefit.

Compelling someone to give an SSN could be in violation.
The question becomes who will bring the charge to a grand jury?

[Michael Joseph]

"... in violation of the laws of the United States;"
"... in violation with regard to the laws belonging to the United States;"
"... in violation of federal laws;"

A trustee is IN Tenancy. A spouse to a woman is in husbandry. But a child is OF his father.

VIOLATION. An act done unlawfully and with force. In the English stat. of 25 E. III., st. 5, c. 2, it is declared to be high treason in any person who shall violate the king's companion; and it is equally high treason in her to suffer willingly such violation. This word has been construed under this statute to mean carnal knowledge. 3 Inst. 9; Bac. Ab, Treason, E.

[christopher george]

There is no requirement to provide your SSN upon demand or inquiry.
In counterpoint, the counter party can refuse you service, however, for failure to provide.

1. An SSN is not yours
2. SS is a benefit.

Compelling someone to give an SSN could be in violation.
The question becomes who will bring the charge to a grand jury?

i see, i think. for instance, if i want to open a bank account without providing a ssn to the bank, i cannot be forced to submit a ssn but i also cannot force them to open me an account...is that correct?

thanks to everyone for their insight!

[Richard Earl]

I did speak a utility provider here in my area and said I didn't need to provide a SSN, however, I will need to leave a deposit.

[shikamaru]

i see, i think. for instance, if i want to open a bank account without providing a ssn to the bank, i cannot be forced to submit a ssn but i also cannot force them to open me an account...is that correct?

thanks to everyone for their insight!

Bingo!

If you stick with it though, I bet you could get that account sans an SSN.

I got what I wanted without providing an SSN with respect to medical services.

There is an exception .... government and government services. A government bureau may require an SSN to render you services.