I'm not sure what you mean by 'their' registers. I see it no differently than posting notice on a tree in the town square, or in a newspaper. I'm seeing it not as a registration, but rather as public notice. Am I missing something?Originally Posted by walter
As far as finding a real out (without doing what I'm suggesting with a prior, public announcement), I think its very simple: just quit using the family surname.
Who owns the tree in town square?
If I own the tree and you tack a document to it then you have deposited your document with me.
I hope your document has value so I can sell it.
Yes, I will have "deposited" public notice with the public.
I think maybe my understanding of what the BC is (I'm calling it that, for brevity and simplification, as it includes the matrix and all of its derivatives) might be different than yours.
You may have heard of one "KW" who's been making the rounds lately. After listening to him quite a bit, I'm thinking the BC creates a state agency, with the local State having jurisdiction over the survey and the name attached thereon. In the US, the instrument is where 14th amendment citizens are born, and so people using the created person (just about everyone) inadvertently alienate themselves from their native state, and become residents.
As residents, their native states treat them as foreign agents, and the people become subject to all this administrative procedure, and lose their status as native sons and daughters of their republic.
I'm proposing that people create their own surveys, and make their own registrations through making their own public notices. They should do this prior to the State making its survey and registration, since being first in time would give the newborn baby evidence of being one of the native born people of the state, and easily rebut any presumptions the State might make as to their status of citizenship.
In the older days the birth events were registered in a family bible.
Who owned the bible?
The family did.
What rights were granted to them from that registration?
How would one travel around the world if they never got a SOLB?
COULD BE BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE THINK IT IS AS COMPARED TO WHAT IT REALLY IS.
We know the BC is an instrument, and it is evidence of a state agency, and governs the survey and the name thereon.
THAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING WITH THE SOLB
Respectfully disagree. What I really think is happening with the BC is, the states (in their role as corporate subsidiaries of the US federal government) are finding an alien and creating a person based on a survey. They are coming in as parens patriae, and giving the newfound child civil rights, and granting parents custody of the child (in most cases).
Regarding Bibles, recordings in family Bibles are regarded as evidence of parentage. There's nothing to stop anyone from recording their baby's names in a family Bible, and if ever there is a question of identity, it can be brought in to support various assertions. But I can't think of any rights being granted by doing that.
As far as traveling across borders, the BC would still be available, assuming states followed the law, and made the required registrations. But this brings up another interesting question: Whatever gave people the idea that they had the right to use the BC? I think what's happening is, people just assume that they can, and they pick up a copy of their record and begin using it.
The idea of preempting the State's registration, is to give people's offspring the ability to rebut presumptions made by states, that the person in question may or may not be an US citizen. Here, there would be a clear line between state citizens and US citizens.
Hold on here.
We are not talking about the same instruments.
SOLB is the "Statement of live birth" and BC is the "birth certificate"
When I said that is already happening with the SOLB you replied back to the BC.
Registering the birth event and getting a BC is two totally different events.
You can not get a BC with out first having a SOLB.
Thats putting the cart before the horse.
These two instruments can be acquired from your state as
one being "certified" and the other a "certificate".
Big difference.
You see the SOLB original is held by them making them the appointed trustee.
The sheeple hold the original BC. So what position does that put the sheeple in?
Won't it be trustee ?
Sorry for the miscommunication, but I thought I made it clear that I was using 'BC' as an all inclusive term for the matrix (the protocol or first draft of a legal instrument, from which all copies are derived) and all of its derivative instruments. The people hold nothing but certificates and/or copies of certificates, which are derived from a matrix, which never leaves the State's custody.
But anyway, no one other than the state legislatures are appointing the State as trustee. What the States are doing is jumping the claim that mothers and fathers have on their offspring, and essentially are claiming to find infants of unknown parentage. From that point on, it's parens patriae all the way, and children become 14th amendment citizens, granted federal civil rights, and alienated from their natural estate as one of the People. ( I don't know how it works in other countries, but it's probably very similar.)
Now as far as persons becoming trustees, when a citizen answers to the name, he assumes the role of surety for the name. It's not his agency. He's simply an agent for the agency, exercising his discretion for the benefit of his principal. This is what I meant earlier when I asked: Whatever made people think they had the right to use the name? They just assume the obligation, even though there's no formal appointment .
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