Property Taxes and 31 USC 3124

[salsero]

Thank you EZ - however, the property that I am in is a condo unit. The purpose of going the route under 31 USC 3124 SHOULD, in theory stop the actual assessment dead in its tracks by operation of THEIR law. They can not use a value that is based upon FRNs to compute a tax at a state or it political subdivision. The property assessment valuation is based upon purchases of homes with presumptive FRNs.

Based on the HOA covenants I do not see being able to declare the property as private. thanks

[allodial]

Thank you EZ - however, the property that I am in is a condo unit. The purpose of going the route under 31 USC 3124 SHOULD, in theory stop the actual assessment dead in its tracks by operation of THEIR law. They can not use a value that is based upon FRNs to compute a tax at a state or it political subdivision. The property assessment valuation is based upon purchases of homes with presumptive FRNs.

Based on the HOA covenants I do not see being able to declare the property as private. thanks

The AARP has started getting active in taking action to protect the retired from adversely exploitive HOAs and HOA agreements. Some of the worst ever agreements or contracts I have seen are HOA agreements as in horrid as to the terms of the agreement. They want you to pay $5M for a house and sign a contract that allows some cabal of a board of directors that monopolizes the democratic process of a community to make all of the decisions (the householders hardly have any say). Most of the agreements embody utter disdain for property rights and rights to privacy. Imagine you put $45M into building a skyscraper, then sucker everyone into paying rent to your HOA by sigining an agreement that allows them to lien your property and put you out even after you have paid even for the smallest thing of having a pet rabbit (and yes I have seen 'pet rabbit clauses'). Of course, the HOA would find those who have paid for their properties the best target because otherwise they'd have to fight with a bank for condos with mortgages not paid off (i.e. liening and auctioning off property with a bank lien on it isn't as attractive but seniors who paid bought with cash ...). But most HOA contracts I've seen are designed to leave the owner exposed and force them into privity with statutory corporations. IMHO ownership of the commons should always be separable from ownership of the dwelling.

Most HOA agreements I have seen amount to total con jobs.

1. Bubba takes 100 of his 200 acres and allows building of homes under an HOA
2. Bubba, being the first HOA-er sets the terms and stocks the board and picks the management (all family and friends but shhh)
3. Newcomers see the beautiful development and plop down $2M+ per house but the terms if you really look at them say you don't own jack.
4. Bubba and company see a few people bought their house with cash, so they frequently send the HOA Nazis to pester them about "You have violated the rule against growing yellow flowers in visible view. Nevermind the fact that no one can see your house for all of the trees and we had to climb over your fence so we can inspect your property. But we have fined you and since you were on vacation and you didn't read our notice we went ahead and placed a lien on your property."
5. Bubba and company have made an easy way to take their land back, raise the value of their property because of comparable values of the 'plebe' HOA members, collect annual rent in the form of HOA fees and terrorize people selectively under the guise of "HOA" akin to a municipality that doesn't want to give any services but only wants the power to harass and fine.
6. Bubba and company want keys to your house so they can 'inspect' they can plant drugs or anything in your house, they can steal, they can harass you--but you do not know these people and might have zero control over them.
7. Typically the areas are the same areas that had race restrictions (i.e. you can move in but if they don't want you there they will fine the piss out of you until you leave.)

One recent HOA agreement I was given to review had a clause where the original owners put in as a running covenant a grant of an unrestricted an easement to local law enforcement and utility companies--not only to the common areas but to the individual units! Do you think Bubba's 100 acres he kept to himself are subject to that easement. Let's ask Bubba:

Attachment 2993

And the houses are priced at around $3M and up! It has many rules against painting or modifying the houses. However, the area is so wooded you can't even see the homes from the roads! Therefore, they the HOA terms is that the HOA and the Board always have right to enter upon your property to "inspect".

There are a sparse few HOA agreements that I have seen that were actually reasonable. I'd say 1 out of 95 are even somewhat non-fascist. Keep in mind that it is possible to simply sign an HOA agreements and C&R document with reservations and attach the reservations to the HOA agreement and CC&R. I would be sure to serve the reservations properly with a certificate of service and file the reservations with the certificate of service along with the signature page of the HOA and C&R documents in a county or U.S. district court case jacket.

[salsero]

[QUOTE=allodial;19206]The AARP has started getting active in taking action to protect the retired from adversely exploitive HOAs and HOA agreements. Some of the worst ever agreements or contracts I have seen are HOA agreements as in horrid as to the terms of the agreement.

First I want to clarify a few things. As far as claiming the condo apartment as mine, it is on shared land. I do not see that as "viable". Second, we are talking around $1000 in property taxes. We are not talking about much here. Third, I certainly did not expect the property appraiser to roll over and say, YOU ARE RIGHT. Property now exempt.

My second comment is to provide a different point of view of HOAs. I am on the board of this HOA and I can state and also prove how well run this one is. Financially, we can not be any better. Maintenance wise we are in very good shape. This was not the case 5 years ago before our group took over. The financial condition was so bad and the previous board was most corrupt, it required attorneys to get them out. HOAs serve a purpose, though I am not defending them. IF one desires to live inexpensively AND the HOA is run well, it is a win win. I can say the same thing about government. If the people are honest in government and people want to abide by certain guidelines subject to certain duties, it really is not a big deal. WE DO HAVE NATURAL LAW ON PLANET EARTH, WHERE WE DO NOT NEED TO HAVE WRITTEN ON PAPER THE GOLDEN RULE. The issue is UNREASONABLENESS. We have a system in place now that has the federal reserve system in place. Putting that issue to the side. Many do not have an issue "paying taxes, etc" as we believe that that provides for the good for the people. We know that is not the case. Paying for anything only provides personal profit and gain for a group of bankers and their henchmen. But most people being reasonable BELEIVE OUR MONEY [lol] is ours. Legally we know this is not the case. The government officials are no different than condo commando board, just at a higher level. Until we change the consciousness of the people, nothing is going to change.

My overall point, maybe not well stated, is that whether HOA, government or Universal Law, we all have rules to live by. We can not think of just ourselves but must look at others as well. It is about WE not me. It does not mean, I exclude myself. It just means I attempt to live in harmony with others. pulling the engine from my car and leaving it in the driveway so everyone can see oil and engine all over is probably not the best place to fix a car. In the same manner, I should not have to listen to my neighbors playing loud music after 10 PM, and further still WE, as a people should not be subject to public officials knowingly breaking the law or bringing harm to the public in any way. Public official hold a position of trust.

[allodial]

First I want to clarify a few things. As far as claiming the condo apartment as mine, it is on shared land. I do not see that as "viable". Second, we are talking around $1000 in property taxes. We are not talking about much here. Third, I certainly did not expect the property appraiser to roll over and say, YOU ARE RIGHT. Property now exempt.

I believe you might do well to consider that the information provided you might be worth more than you suspect. Also if you look at the relevant Declaration of Condominium it is likely that the unit itself was made distinct unto itself. The unit itself is not shared although the commons might be shared. I have lots of experience when it comes to real property law and that also extends to nuances particular to condominiums and apartments. The unit itself is a subdivision even if its suspended in the air and it can be privately held notwithstanding the shared nature of what is out side the door to the unit.

My overall point, maybe not well stated, is that whether HOA, government or Universal Law, we all have rules to live by. We can not think of just ourselves but must look at others as well. It is about WE not me. It does not mean, I exclude myself. It just means I attempt to live in harmony with others. pulling the engine from my car and leaving it in the driveway so everyone can see oil and engine all over is probably not the best place to fix a car. In the same manner, I should not have to listen to my neighbors playing loud music after 10 PM, and further still WE, as a people should not be subject to public officials knowingly breaking the law or bringing harm to the public in any way. Public official hold a position of trust.

A selfish, megalomaniac who pens Nazi C&R and HOA terms is not likely out for "we" but himself or herself--in the case of a scamster cabal -> they would be out for themselves. How does such grotesque disregard for the rights and freedom of others amount to a community mindset? Isn't it "we" minded to realize that people have rights and freedoms that should be respected or is it more we-minded and community-minded by barring anyone from doing anything at their homes but breathing, eating, cutting the grass and sleeping? A restriction on leaving an engine sitting in the driveway is far from obnoxious to include in an HOA agreement--but most people I've come across even in the most ghetto neighborhoods do things (i.e. repairs) like that in their garage or in their backyard OUT OF SIGHT.

There are no doubt good HOAs. However, there are occasions where there are 20 acres of trees surrounding houses in an HOA. They cannot see each other. But yet rules for how many cars you can have, clauses that amount to total waiver of privacy, that you cant paint or modify your house without approval from a board that is not even democratically elected, that you cant grow food (we're talking about country acreage). Honestly , why doesn't the Bob just live by himself? Because Bob wants money and power and lots of control with little to zero liability and somehow he is "we" minded?

I have spent many rather charitable years dealing with the "we(e) minded" sorts who's idea of "we mindedness" is "we use your stuff, you take care of it if I break it" or "we share debts but my money is my own".

When the main service an HOA provides is a gate and you have 100 people paying $2,000 a year to maintain a gate.... Well that is just silly but it is typical in HOA land. "We have a shared gate so voila presto chango we have wut u call an HOA (i.e. excuse for a bazillion obnoxious restrictions and powertrips)".

Translation: Bob doesn't get along well with others, he has 200 acres of land and wants a fast way to make a few million dollars, he likes exerting power over others obnoxiously, he could build houses then rent them but that isn't a way to the Big Dollars, he doesn't really want to lose control over the land, Bob wants millions (from scam sales) + rent on top so subdivides off 100 acres and forms an HOA, by surface appearance he 'sells' the land, by syntax he denies the purchasers most all traditional property under the guise of "what is for the whole".

I also have real estate development experience. Running numbers on one project, I realized we could build a high-rise condo and pocket tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands from the HOA fees alone and still hire a manager, a security guard and cleaning company and have plenty left over. Sell the units, maintain control over the commons--like bridge trolls.

Keep in mind, Bob if he despises others could he simply stay on his 200 acres by himself. The HOA and obnoxious terms allow him to have his cake and eat it too. See also: bilk.

[salsero]

Me thinks - you should not be moving in an HOA.

FOLKS, I ASKED THE GROUP FOR SOME "REASONABLE INFORMATION" CONCERNING THE PROPERTY APPRAISER AND 31 USC 3124". This concerns the general population whether you live in a HOA or not. Can we please stick on subject. I provided the correspondence. I would say that is much more worthy to comment then on HOAs.

I believe you might do well to consider that the information provided you might be worth more than you suspect. Also if you look at the relevant Declaration of Condominium it is likely that the unit itself was made distinct unto itself. The unit itself is not shared although the commons might be shared. I have lots of experience when it comes to real property law and that also extends to nuances particular to condominiums and apartments. The unit itself is a subdivision even if its suspended in the air and it can be privately held notwithstanding the shared nature of what is out side the door to the unit.



A selfish, megalomaniac who pens Nazi C&R and HOA terms is not likely out for "we" but himself or herself--in the case of a scamster cabal -> they would be out for themselves. How does such grotesque disregard for the rights and freedom of others amount to a community mindset? Isn't it "we" minded to realize that people have rights and freedoms that should be respected or is it more we-minded and community-minded by barring anyone from doing anything at their homes but breathing, eating, cutting the grass and sleeping? A restriction on leaving an engine sitting in the driveway is far from obnoxious to include in an HOA agreement--but most people I've come across even in the most ghetto neighborhoods do things (i.e. repairs) like that in their garage or in their backyard OUT OF SIGHT.

There are no doubt good HOAs. However, there are occasions where there are 20 acres of trees surrounding houses in an HOA. They cannot see each other. But yet rules for how many cars you can have, clauses that amount to total waiver of privacy, that you cant paint or modify your house without approval from a board that is not even democratically elected, that you cant grow food (we're talking about country acreage). Honestly , why doesn't the Bob just live by himself? Because Bob wants money and power and lots of control with little to zero liability and somehow he is "we" minded?

I have spent many rather charitable years dealing with the "we(e) minded" sorts who's idea of "we mindedness" is "we use your stuff, you take care of it if I break it" or "we share debts but my money is my own".

When the main service an HOA provides is a gate and you have 100 people paying $2,000 a year to maintain a gate.... Well that is just silly but it is typical in HOA land. "We have a shared gate so voila presto chango we have wut u call an HOA (i.e. excuse for a bazillion obnoxious restrictions and powertrips)".

Translation: Bob doesn't get along well with others, he has 200 acres of land and wants a fast way to make a few million dollars, he likes exerting power over others obnoxiously, he could build houses then rent them but that isn't a way to the Big Dollars, he doesn't really want to lose control over the land, Bob wants millions (from scam sales) + rent on top so subdivides off 100 acres and forms an HOA, by surface appearance he 'sells' the land, by syntax he denies the purchasers most all traditional property under the guise of "what is for the whole".

I also have real estate development experience. Running numbers on one project, I realized we could build a high-rise condo and pocket tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands from the HOA fees alone and still hire a manager, a security guard and cleaning company and have plenty left over. Sell the units, maintain control over the commons--like bridge trolls.

Keep in mind, Bob if he despises others could he simply stay on his 200 acres by himself. The HOA and obnoxious terms allow him to have his cake and eat it too. See also: bilk.

[ag maniac]

This probably won't add much to which you seek, Tony....you probably already know it.....but here's Carl Miller's ("Constitution Man")take on the 31 USC 742 FRN tax computational prohibition

https://www.hisadvocates.org/blog/re...r-property-tax

And a google search on 31 usc 742 might reveal some reasoning for your plight.

[salsero]

Ag Maniac. Thank you - but the first link agrees completely with me but offers no solution. The key is the property appraiser will not budge. Sure we all know they all use US currency and US dollars but will not admit they are Federal Reserve Notes.