What Options Am I Left With? (Did Not R4C or Send Back Traffic Citations)

My intention with this thread is to offer an experience I have had, and hopefully gain insight in regard to it, specifically what options I may still have available to me to remedy the legal end of it all at this time. Advice on how to handle a similar situation in the future is very much appreciated as well, but the current matter is a bit pressing.

I am very much a novice and have only begun researching the matters discussed throughout this forum relatively recently, so I may misuse a term, or not understand a response in full. I'm very much a work in progress so please bear with me.
Additionally, I have yet to go through the steps to 'correct my status' so to speak, as I am still trying my best to find out a fully efficient way to separate my flesh and blood vessel from the LEGAL NAME/chattel property/citizen status. Any advice would have to be inline with this status in order for it to be useful.
I'll also drop the full story in the next post if anyone wants to throw out a strategy if I'm forced to undergo a trial at this point.

Short version: I was pulled over for no plate. Asked if I was being detained, told no, and therefore did not provide any of the paperwork (license, registration, insurance, none of which existed anyway.) I didn't have anything on me to show in any capacity, so I wasn't trying to be difficult. I did hand them a small card stating that I retained all my rights, including my right to remain silent and not incriminate myself. Eventually I am forcibly removed from my vehicle and taken to the area police precinct. There they attempt to gain my NAME, but I keep asking to first be told that I am being detained and/or if I'm being charged with a crime.
Long story short, they run the VIN#, get the NAME on title (titled in STATE [looking to correct that in the future,] call a family member with same last name who I assume identified me via description of me and my car, police pull up my long expired STATE ID photo (not DL just ID) and info. I am then released and given a bag with my confiscated belongings that also includes 5 new citations.
4 traffic: no license, no registration, no financial responsibility, not identifying self to officer
1 citation for disorderly conduct: apparently the small crowd drawn was caused solely by me and not by the 5 police vehicles with flashing lights jammed into a small area on the street. It also state I caused traffic to back up, although you can see traffic flow smoothly throughout the video.

I did not R4C because I was not able to find adequate advice on how to do so properly within my own 72 hr limit (I spent the next day getting my car back, and had work and family obligations to attend too the next 2 days, so research time was limited.)
I also did not send back any of the citations that ask for pleadings and collateral for appearance. This is again because I didn't know what to do.

I want to know if I have a leg to stand on here as I simply wasn't sure what to do and, therefore, for better or worse, did nothing.
If anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated, just please dumb it down wherever possible for a novice that has only been researching this vast spectrum of the "legal world" for about a month before the stop, as I am simply not familiar with most proceedings and terminology.

Welcome James!

I think you will enjoy it here.

I appreciate the warm welcome, and I think I will too. I found this forum as a result of browsing the Sui Juris Club, and this seems a bit more civil here, to use the non-legalese context.

I have been combing the DL was NOT used as ID thread thread a few others with what free time I've had recently. Its quite a bit to digest as a newcomer, but I feel like this incident was a nudge by a higher power to be more diligent in my studies on this 'world.'

Here's the Long Version, if it makes any difference
From what I can gather, since my status hasn't been corrected on any level I suppose I am assumed "in commerce" unless able to prove otherwise, but I acted as I did none the less.

So, I'll start from the top.

I was traveling home from work in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in my personal conveyance. I have never been "licensed," never registered /plated my car though I did it have it titled to my NAME in the STATE to prove ownership, and I carried no paperwork/ID, etc.

I am signaled by a LOA vehicle via lights and horn after passing it on the street. I pull over into a valid parking spot by the sidewalk, and park. LEOs approach my window. I retrieve a computer tablet for recording purposes, and remain silent until it has began video recording. I admittedly spoke more than I should have. What follows is all the relevant conversation I have recorded in the 33 min video:

LEO1: You have no tag on the car?
Me: No Response (NR)

LEO2: You have your license and registration, and insurance?
Me: NR

*After repeated requests to see a license, I hand LEO2 a paper with court cases involving Right To Travel as well a small card stating I will not be giving up any of my rights. I also respond to his repeated request for a license with "what I have for you is right there sir."*

LEO1: He's 'one of them.'
Me: I'm not one of anything

LEO2: You're not being arrested so the right to remain silent means nothing
Me: Am I being detained?
LEO2: No, you're not being detained.
Me: May I leave?
LEO2: No, its a car stop. You're under police investigation.

LEO3: Sir, do you have your license? You know that when you sign for your license there's things about rights that when you're pulled over you have to show your license?
Me: Are you under the impression I signed anything?
LEO3: So you don't have a license?
Me: Did I say that?
LEO3: Ok, your car is going to be LiveStopped.
Me: This is private property.
LEO3: Its going to be towed
Me: Under what jurisdiction?
LEO3: Pennsylvania
LEO4: Do you have any paperwork?
Me: I have the title
LEO4: May I see it?
Me: I don't have it to show

LEO Sgt: I don't care what you think you're doing, driving is not a right is a privilege.
Me: I'm traveling by personal conveyance. I am not driving.
LEO Sgt: You're behind the wheel, you are operating this vehicle.
Me: Please read the paper I handed the other officer.
LEO Sgt: I don't care about this (hands paper back.)
Me: Am I being detained?
LEO Sgt: You are not being detained but we will tow this car.
Me: Am I free to leave?
LEO Sgt: No
Me: May I speak to a supervisor?
LEO Sgt: Negative. I'm in charge of the streets. You won't speak to anyone else. I run the streets, not you.

*about 5 mins pass, another officer attempts to get information from me but I don't respond. The Sgt then tells me "you are not free to leave. We will take you out of this car one way or the other."

*about another 7mins of nothing. I pause recording to conserve what little battery is left, knowing they plan to take me out of the car "one way or the the other". Video resumes about 5-10 mins later when the tow truck arrives.

*mostly more waiting. Another officer, LEO5, arrives off camera and is talking with LEO2. LEO 5 states "He'll be locked up for an M3 so we're good". This refers to a 3rd degree misdemeanor. I assume that's what the Disorderly Conduct falls under.*

*tow operator starts to attempt to open my passenger side door with tools. I obstruct him from doing so.*

LEO Sgt. : You're not cooperating so we're taking you out of the car. We'll break the window if you stop him again.
Me: I'm not being uncooperative.
LEO Sgt: We will break the window if you don't let him open the door.
Me: I'm not going to obstruct the tow operator. (I do not consider this "allowing the tow operator to gain access" as stated on the Non-Traffic Citation.)

*I'm removed from the car, and hancuffed, and taken to a police vehicle to be searched. LEO2 enters the car to turn off recording.*

**One note about "ownership" of the car, that may or may not be relevant to the State's power to 'take' it. It was not registered to any State at the time, but the previous owner had it registered prior. It was titled with the State in an attempt to show ownership to me. It was also not bought by me with commercial money, it was gifted and there is paperwork to show that. However, the original owner likely paid in FRD or something in that vein, so I'm not sure if there are lien issues here.


Quick rundown of what happens after video ends:

I am transferred to the police station. I am taken to the holding area where I am again searched, uncuffed, and escorted to a cell.

Eventually a LEO comes and tries to get my identity. He tells me I am required to identify myself. I state that I was told I was not being detained, nor have I been told of any charges against me. He repeats himself, and I again ask to be told if I'm being detained or charged. He ignores my request, and tells me that if I don't tell him my identity they simply put me in as JOHN DOE. They will also fingerprint me because they are sure I'll be in the system and I am hiding from something (I had nothing to hide.) He says I could be an international "T" (word I won't even type in a web post) for all they know, hiding out in the area. He states that I'll sit there until Monday as JOHN DOE (its Wed night and I guess he's making it seem like the weekend doesn't count toward holding regulations.) I said I'll sit there until Monday as JOHN DOE if that's an option. He assures me "no one leaves as JOHN DOE," and walks off.

He returns and its the same go-round, except he slips up and admits that I'm not being charged at this time.
He returns again, this time with a photo of a relative with the same LAST NAME. They have apparently run the VIN# on my car and found the NAME it was titled to. This gets them nowhere at the time.
A final return by male LEO. They attempted to send someone to my residence but no one answered. They called a third family member who lives there who's phone number they had on file, and she, from what I can assume, gave my name based on my car's description. They pulled my photo from a long expired STATE ID, and used it as a means to identify me. I at no time state whether it is or isn't me. He leaves.
Later, a female LEO comes by my cell and calls me by my NAME. I am laying down with my hat over my face, and ignore her repeated attempts to get me to respond to the NAME. She reaches in and shakes my hat to get my attention, again stating the NAME. I sit up, and she says I am being released and they have papers for me to sign. I respond, "if you're talking to me, I'm not signing anything." I am eventually released, with 5 citations in the sealed bag containing my confiscated belongings. 4 Traffic (no reg, no license, no insurance, not identifying self to officer) and 1 non-traffic for Disorderly Conduct.

I tried to look up what is needed to be done for a proper R4C, as well as any other remedy, but I did not find sufficient information to take a proper course of action within 72 hours (keep in mind the entire next day was spent getting my car back, and I also have a job and family to attend to.)

Aftermath:
Since my car was LiveStopped, it was also impounded. I had 30 days to get it back before it was auctioned off. I call to find out where it is, and what I need to do to get it back. I am told that I will be required to bring valid registration, proof of insurance, and pay any outstanding fines, as well as either have a license or bring along someone that does when I get to the lot.
I am unable to find any way to get around this, and do not wish to incur additional daily lot-fees. Thus, I go to a local PennDOT authorized facility where I register my car, as well as insure it, which also requires that I get a new valid STATE ID as they won't take my Passport for insurance. I attempt to sign Without Prejudice for the ID card, but am told I am not allowed. They even call a rep at PennDOT who tells them I cannot sign this way. I am forced to sign a regular signature in order to be issued an ID. I did, however, sign everything else including the registration with "UCC 1-308" in an attempt to hold onto my rights.
I head down to the traffic courthouse with my paperwork, pay my fine, and then go to the lot to pick up my car where they put the plates on my car before I leave with it (licensed family member drove it home for me.)

I have not taken any additional action since. I would like to rescind everything I signed as well as unregister the car. The big problem there is obviously that even if I correct everything with my status before another traffic stop, I would still be subject to a LiveStop and would again have my car forcibly impounded, thus forced to pay fines and fees to get it back. I have a few ideas on how to do this in unorthodox ways that I've been picking up here and there (register it somewhere/somehow other than with the STATE if possible, get "financial responsibility" taken care of through means other than an insurance agency, and possible get some form of international "license" that does not bind me to STATE/US UCC regulation.) However, local LEOs would likely just LiveStop me without some sort of STATE issued paperwork stating that I can Travel in this manner. But that's what future study and applied actions will correct later.

Anyways, thanks for reading my ramblings and any helpful advice is greatly appreciated.

You are a victim of Patriot Mythology.

What you call "in commerce" is that you are assumed to be endorsing private credit from the Fed. If you begin redeeming lawful money today for example you can keep your rights in the future, starting now.

So with that suggestion said, I would get into the state constitution and find out about officers and judicial officers - where they file oaths of office. Go there and get certified copies or certificate of fact to the contrary - that no oath is to be found with that clerk.

If the oath of office on the DA and the Judge are in order then simply hold them both to the law. You get your day in court. If they disobey the law, great! You can use that to convince them, in business to dismiss or give you a real sweet deal and get rid of you. If they have no oaths of office or these oaths are contrary to state law then you can probably abate and they might appear to be ignoring you but at the last minute the same thing; dismissal or a sweet slap on the wrist.

I would not hope for anything much unless you use law. You are entrapped in a district of debt. I just grabbed this photo on my way back from class today... By uniform code Title 18 C.R.S. is Criminal Code in conformity with Title 18 federal. So that is why it caught my eye:

Attachment 3202


This CODE is municipal and the jurisdiction is of higher "home rule" than you will find in state or federal law. I believe it is akin to the priesthood of Levi in the Bible - cities and their suburbs - I Chronicles 6. Denver is Home Rule Cities and Towns in the state constitution so don't bother fighting. Show full responsibility if you want this to go away.

The way you are going about this sounds like if you tagged a child cyclist his parents might be stuck with about $12,000 in medical bills. You probably can't keep a good job and such with no SSN etc. (me making rude presumptions). In Colorado you can go without insurance by having $30K in escrow or whatever. The $12K would come out of that account and you would need to replace it pretty quick or go get insurance.

I am walking you through responsibility.

If you sign your new driver license "James." with a period behind it then when you present it you say, I am not identifying myself with this card, my name is James, like you see how I have signed it. Keep the card in the glove box and tell the officer you are just showing the card to prove competency so he knows roadside you have an active valid insurance policy. Transfer the car into your true name, if possible but use a Redeemed Lawful Money stamp from now on with your signature and whenever you are feeling compelled to sign something on a digital pad write, "Lawful Money." Just like that - no scribbling, no cursive.

Get the stamp from Tim at Quality Rubber Stamp (719) 635-0943:

Attachment 3203

This non-endorsement removes you from the Federal Reserve districts - extraterritorial jurisdictions like METRO organization. That will sink in later.

Go get the driver license signed "James." - large as you can on the pad. Go get insured for the car, and get the Title transferred to you - to James if you can. I signed a special affidavit - ONE IN THE SAME PERSON. It had my FIRST MIDDLE name with FIRST MIDDLE LAST legal full name. This is key. While signing for the Title transfer use the stamp and when they want to know how much you paid for the car tell them that is "Private". This way the property tax will be $0. You will still pay bridges and other roadway taxes but then again you will be using the bridges and roadways so...

Go get your car.

Go to the arraignment and beg for forgiveness. Show them all the papers and let them know that you are responsible and your days as a patriot nutjob are behind you. They might be so happy as to let you walk away - charges dropped.

My friend was once invited to lecture to law enforcement officers. They really need to be educated so not to be afraid of what they do not understand.

P.S. Consider what is called "your" Social Security Number the identifying number for a Trust you have in agreement with Government. If you are older this is nice because if you have already put in 10 years (40 quarters) of premiums your "old age" insurance is good to go.

I mention this because when getting a driver license card for my glove box they asked if I wanted the SSN kept private. I said "Yes".

Later I was putting utilities in my name and they wanted "my SSN". To keep it secret she handed me a cheap calculator and had me punch in the nine digits. I did. She told me that she could not verify it with my Driver License! I regretted disclosing the real number. I suppose that if I would have guessed they might have tried giving me grief for identity theft if I would have used somebody else's SSN by mistake.

For setting up an account online, to pay the bills etc. they gave me an eleven digit number special to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

MShort version: I was pulled over for no plate. Asked if I was being detained, told no, and therefore did not provide any of the paperwork (license, registration, insurance, none of which existed anyway.)

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Lack of a plate or US DOT # on a car is akin to lack of a flag on a ship at sea--pirate status presumed. Roads are treated as 'rivers' and the term 'road' it is suggested originally was used to describe a river used heavily for commercial purposes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

I was traveling home from work in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in my personal conveyance. I have never been "licensed," never registered /plated my car though I did it have it titled to my NAME in the STATE to prove ownership, and I carried no paperwork/ID, etc.

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Titles and such are likely only issue to 'residents'. The term 'personal conveyance' is not synymous with 'private automobile'. Law dictionaries are extremely handy. Once you titled it, you placed the owner and the property "in this State" and likely subscribed to a whole kit of rules and regulations all at the same time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

LEO3: Ok, your car is going to be LiveStopped.
Me: This is private property.

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You registered it as a resident in the State, it might not actually be private property based on your own confession.

Quote:

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LEO Sgt: I don't care what you think you're doing, driving is not a right is a privilege.
Me: I'm traveling by personal conveyance. I am not driving.
LEO Sgt: You're behind the wheel, you are operating this vehicle.
Me: Please read the paper I handed the other officer.
LEO Sgt: I don't care about this (hands paper back.)
Me: Am I being detained?
LEO Sgt: You are not being detained but we will tow this car.
Me: Am I free to leave?
LEO Sgt: No
Me: May I speak to a supervisor?
LEO Sgt: Negative. I'm in charge of the streets. You won't speak to anyone else. I run the streets, not you.

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#1 conveyance is a term that refers to titles, property assignments --you're driving inside of a title claim?
#2 operating tends to have something to do with commercial activity
#3 LEO Sgt's colorful way of saying that he is a magistrate but at the same time likely a city employee and the city taught him to place his city employment higher than the state peace officer (magistrate) role. "constables on patrol" or "conservators of the peace" ~= "cop".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

**One note about "ownership" of the car, that may or may not be relevant to the State's power to 'take' it. It was not registered to any State at the time, but the previous owner had it registered prior. It was titled with the State in an attempt to show ownership to me. It was also not bought by me with commercial money, it was gifted and there is paperwork to show that. However, the original owner likely paid in FRD or something in that vein, so I'm not sure if there are lien issues here.

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When it comes to State Certificates of Title and mail boxes, the term 'owner' means surety. If it is registered in the State's system as owned by a resident of the State than it is not necessarily private property in the sense you might think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

He ignores my request, and tells me that if I don't tell him my identity they simply put me in as JOHN DOE. They will also fingerprint me because they are sure I'll be in the system and I am hiding from something (I had nothing to hide.) He says I could be an international "T" (word I won't even type in a web post) for all they know, hiding out in the area. He states that I'll sit there until Monday as JOHN DOE (its Wed night and I guess he's making it seem like the weekend doesn't count toward holding regulations.) I said I'll sit there until Monday as JOHN DOE if that's an option. He assures me "no one leaves as JOHN DOE," and walks off.

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Cops are taught all kinds of silly and paradoxical ideas because without the presumptive structure the attorneys wouldn't profit as much. But when you're in training the peer support and fancy forms make it all seem legitimate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

He returns again, this time with a photo of a relative with the same LAST NAME. They have apparently run the VIN# on my car and found the NAME it was titled to.

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See above about the effect of registration of property as being in the State and owned by a resident.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

They called a third family member who lives there who's phone number they had on file, and she, from what I can assume, gave my name based on my car's description.

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Family members and 'old friends' can be most useful assistant prison wardens. If you pause to think about it, there is a similarity between the role of police and forest wardens ('animal control'). "Oh sh*t, another one is waking up. That could effect how much money we have to go to the casino next week..."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

They pulled my photo from a long expired STATE ID, and used it as a means to identify me. I at no time state whether it is or isn't me. He leaves.

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How can pixels on a screen be you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

I tried to look up what is needed to be done for a proper R4C, as well as any other remedy, but I did not find sufficient information to take a proper course of action within 72 hours (keep in mind the entire next day was spent getting my car back, and I also have a job and family to attend to.)

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If you notified them that you'd be reserving your rights then you could conceivably notify them of that. But there are things that preceeded that night that you didn't take care of. I wouldn't take an adverse stance towards the cops. Instead, consider the paper trail you created or failed to create to help swing things in your favor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

Since my car was LiveStopped, it was also impounded. I had 30 days to get it back before it was auctioned off. I call to find out where it is, and what I need to do to get it back. I am told that I will be required to bring valid registration, proof of insurance, and pay any outstanding fines, as well as either have a license or bring along someone that does when I get to the lot.

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All of those 'requirements' probably are contracted into per the registration of the 'motor vehicle'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James NoMiddle

I have not taken any additional action since. I would like to rescind everything I signed as well as unregister the car. The big problem there is obviously that even if I correct everything with my status before another traffic stop, I would still be subject to a LiveStop and would again have my car forcibly impounded, thus forced to pay fines and fees to get it back. I have a few ideas on how to do this in unorthodox ways that I've been picking up here and there (register it somewhere/somehow other than with the STATE if possible, get "financial responsibility" taken care of through means other than an insurance agency, and possible get some form of international "license" that does not bind me to STATE/US UCC regulation.) However, local LEOs would likely just LiveStop me without some sort of STATE issued paperwork stating that I can Travel in this manner. But that's what future study and applied actions will correct later.

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Some caution against taking action when lacking wisdom. Knowing/deciding who you are is most fundamental. Anyways its worth figuring out:

1. Are Certificates of Title ever issued to non-residents?
2. Are State ID cards or State driver's licenses ever issued to non-resident?
3. What does 'surety' mean?
4. What is an 'adhesion contract'?
5. What is the difference between a police officer, a conservator of the peace and a peace officer?
6. What is the difference between policy enforcement and law enforcement?
7. What is the difference between a municipal corporation, a city and a county?
8. What is the difference between residential, commercial and private property?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

You are a victim of Patriot Mythology.

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And quite a stew of Patriot Mythology no doubt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

What you call "in commerce" is that you are assumed to be endorsing private credit from the Fed. If you begin redeeming lawful money today for example you can keep your rights in the future, starting now.

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They presume James paid for everything with FRNs and has willingly pledged all of his assets to back commercial investments of the FRB and Lehman Brothers, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

I would not hope for anything much unless you use law. You are entrapped in a district of debt. I just grabbed this photo on my way back from class today... By uniform code Title 18 C.R.S. is Criminal Code in conformity with Title 18 federal. So that is why it caught my eye:

Attachment 3202

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Funny how home rule cities are pretty much become territories or colonies of the State. The municipal corporation is key because that allows for presumption of 'universal (to the zone) civil death' so that a corporation can "rule" the territory. Without the municipal corporation, likely the area would become unincorporated area--another state within the state. An 'emancipated county'?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

This CODE is municipal and the jurisdiction is of higher "home rule" than you will find in state or federal law. I believe it is akin to the priesthood of Levi in the Bible - cities and their suburbs - I Chronicles 6. Denver is Home Rule Cities and Towns in the state constitution so don't bother fighting. Show full responsibility if you want this to go away.

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The Dartmouth case explains a lot about charters from sovereigns. The city folks are franchisees of that charter. Strangers are taxed, the children are free.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

If you sign your new driver license "James." with a period behind it then when you present it you say, I am not identifying myself with this card, my name is James, like you see how I have signed it. Keep the card in the glove box and tell the officer you are just showing the card to prove competency so he knows roadside you have an active valid insurance policy. Transfer the car into your true name, if possible but use a Redeemed Lawful Money stamp from now on with your signature and whenever you are feeling compelled to sign something on a digital pad write, "Lawful Money." Just like that - no scribbling, no cursive.

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Might a alternative is to write James d/b/a SMITH JAMES A.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

Get the stamp from Tim at Quality Rubber Stamp (719) 635-0943:

Attachment 3203

This non-endorsement removes you from the Federal Reserve districts - extraterritorial jurisdictions like METRO organization. That will sink in later.

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Becoming an accommodation party to the Fed seems to result in exposure one to the syncretisms of METRO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

In Colorado you can go without insurance by having $30K in escrow or whatever. The $12K would come out of that account and you would need to replace it pretty quick or go get insurance.

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Interesting, do you know the statues regulating that David?

Well James....seems you might have missed your calling......60 miles west --> Bird-in-Hand, Paradise, or Intercourse, Pennsylvania.....take your pick ;)

http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i...b/51457381.jpg