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Thread: Moses Was Not A Magician

  1. #1

    Moses Was Not A Magician

    Perhaps the title would be best "Moses was neither a witch nor a sorcerer"? Some have made arduous attempts to link Moses to witchcraft or sorcery. This interesting and excellent work puts such idea to rest and explains even staff-turning-into-snakes thing. Note: the Great Dragon of Revelations never swallows up the Royal Priesthood. The Moses vs the Egyptian magicians was explained to me long ago. It was a very clear illustration of the difference between sorcery and the exercise of rightful authority or what some might call Divine Authority.

    Credit to this excellent work entitled Moses and Magic: Notes on the Book of Exodus (link is to PDF)goes to (Professor) Scott B. Noegel, Chair, Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civiliation, University of Washington.

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    (See link above for the remaining 10 or so pages).
    Last edited by allodial; 12-28-13 at 11:41 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  2. #2
    A more printer-friendly PDF is here.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  3. #3
    Thanks for that. Passages, a bible museum has some modern art with Moses sitting with the Eye of Horus behind him. Notice the lecture October 22nd. Drawn from the water, Birth Stories of Sargon and Moses by Dr Filip VUKOVOSOVIC.

    During the lecture he seemed to say that Sargon preceded Moses, implying that Moses plagiarized Sargon. He said it in a way that he was neither saying anything one way or the other. At the end there is questions and answers at the microphone to the side. So I asked quite bluntly who plagiarized whom. He made it more clear that the Moses story is taken from the Sargon story.

    He did not even make it to the lobby where traditionally people get to meet the speakers, shake hands and ask a question, and move on. He was immediately surrounded by the Christians grilling him.
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  4. #4
    I am reminded of a discussion about 'lore spinning/stealing' and 'stealing fire from another thread. There are those who suggest Moses to have been a "Freemason" but was he? I'm not so sure that Moses' religion was technically "Judaism" either--to knowledge he was not a descendant of Judah--he was a Hebrew (think: 'Eber'/'Abraham'), and both of his parents of the tribe of Levi. He was adopted into an Egyptian royal family. Seems to be foreshadowing of a kind of "royal priesthood". There are those who have suggested sodomy to have been normative in Ancient Greece but does it make it true? Easy to put words into mouths of those who might no longer be with us, no? Projection and ventriloquism onto the dead as a means of bolstering foundations?

    Also, I consider the idea of the "drawn from the water". If one hears a story of a Cristobal Colon (Columbus) that traveled by boat and discovered a piece of land along with a story of another sailor that traveled by boat and discovered some piece of land, can one soundly come to the conclusion of them being one in the same simply because of their mode of travel or escape? Many people ride elevators, cards, boats, ships. Consider how many people have escaped danger by their parents putting them on a boat or afloat on water or who carried them in their arms: can be soundly conclude them to have been the same person or to be plagiarizing each other by following a tried and true method of safety, escape, travel or the like? Three thousand people hid their children in a cave and the children all escaped to safety--is that plagiarism? Hmmm. Also, the likelihood of a child being adopted by a wealthy or well-off or influential family seems rather logical since poor families probably didn't tend to adopt for lack of resources, no?

    Perhaps one method to divert from Central Route Processing is to overload or poison the Central Route Processing system in order to encourage failover to Peripheral Route Processing?

    It seems more plausible for Sargon was Shar/Shah Cain rather than Moses. Three hundred different stories of people dredging a swamp and building upon the dredged area, and they are plagiarizing one another? Hmm. Interesting how far they go to attack well-settled foundations.

    Also, the evidence of the Exodus is apparent even in Ancient Greek archaeology. Sargon ! = Moses.

    Related: Exodus Decoded (youtube video (t=3700)) [James K. Hoffmeier, PhD, Professor of Old Testament and Ancient Near Eastern History and Archaeology is featured in the History Channel video)]; Wall Paintings of Thera.

    I took my clothes to the dryer in a basket, so did my neighbor--are we one in the same?



    (1 hour and 1 minute and 40 seconds starts the discussion of Greek archaeological evidence of "the Exodus").
    Last edited by allodial; 12-30-13 at 08:50 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #5
    I am reminded of a discussion about 'lore spinning/stealing' and 'stealing fire from another thread. There are those who suggest Moses to have been a "Freemason" but was he? I'm not so sure that Moses' religion was technically "Judaism" either--to knowledge he was not a descendant of Judah--he was a Hebrew (think: 'Eber'/'Abraham'), and both of his parents of the tribe of Levi. He was adopted into an Egyptian royal family. Seems to be foreshadowing of a kind of "royal priesthood".
    This tracks to Mnason of the Bible. Here is a 'mason' in my opinion. The knowledge of building in stone of course was an art that would be in demand - to the "City Builders". Look at the jurisdiction of the Levites - the cities and their suburbs. METRO!

    Mnasons role was to perjure himself before the Sanhedrin for Paul's sake (11:40 Minute Mark) and buy him probation (shaved head in the walled city means easy to pick up.) The lie was that Paul's ship did not dock at Cyprus. Mnason was a Cypriot Jew whom with we LODGED. Investigators would have taken maybe a week to journey to Tyre and back to check the ship's manifest. Sure enough Paul lowers himself over the wall with a rope and escapes in the night to form the Roman Welfare State.

    Seems to be foreshadowing of a kind of "royal priesthood".
    Indeed, God's chosen people! The Golden Calf incident did them in except Moses changed God's mind on that. Moses saved them but put them into a bondage contract of blood sacrifice, replaced by the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb of Christianity - all washed in the Blood of the Lamb Jesus CHRIST.

    I have accepted my election into the Order of Melchizedek and mine is the Way of the Tree of Life. The kingdom of God is the sensation I feel when I radiate it. To get what I mean you must accept that sacrifice is folly except as a business plan.

    They are people in They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

    I have to add that Paul's plan would have worked if the Herodean Guard on the Temple would have been in control of the Sanhedrin. All Paul wanted was acceptance in the Temple government as a Benjamite. He needed a Levite wife, just like the first time when he talked them into a commission as bounty hunter after Jesus up in Damascus. The Herodeans were probably accepting Paul as a Roman Citizen because they were sock-puppets for Caesar anyway. But the Sanhedrin declared it treason against Israel.

    I get your point about plagiarism. The archetype has a distinctive tone where the adopted baby becomes a powerful leader. Plagiarism is a harsh word for a repetitive archetype though. It was the way Filip pussyfooted around it because of the audience that I shone a spotlight on the idea that the Moses story is not an original. Jerry PATTENGALE the Director of the Green Scholar Initiative even poo-pooed the idea there was any credibility to the Eye of Horace behind Moses in the modern art.

    I find it amazing how men of faith can study the Bible so closely for decades, producing a wonderful career and never breakthrough consciously to understand the priestcraft is a business.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 12-30-13 at 10:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Re: Roman Welfare State
    Perhaps Paul had the idea that Rome would in consequence of Rome's acts would effectively fall into Jesus' hands as well--like a war prize?

    Re: Priestcraft
    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    Estate planning and management would be a "big business" when contemplating planning for children numbering in the millions or billions or more. Its not so much a money-oriented business as a love and prosperity oriented business.

    Am I my brother's keeper? -Cain
    How can you participate in managing God's estate or your own if you really could care less about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    To get what I mean you must accept that sacrifice is folly except as a business plan.
    Who puts logs into a pile in cold of night at a campsite for the purpose of wetting them then burying them? Even at the campsite, the logs are an asset, sacrificed with an intelligent/wise plan to make light and heat. Its a plan with sense. AFAIK, squander isn't the Way of Heaven. More than likely, even Jesus was able to perceive the value of the vast Heavenly Estate and to see its great value. One man and his wife produce a daughter for me. We come together to produce happy, honorable and upright children as part of the God's plan. Its a perpetual joy that the Adversary might wish to disrupt.

    The enemies of the Estate don't necessarily "get it" especially if they are carnally minded and cannot see beyond the immediate physical realm. Consider, the enemy's of the Estate were (and perhaps still are) against its expansion and for its contraction so they tend to promote things that are contrary to prosperity or productivity (sodomy, laziness, etc.).

    I find it amazing how men of faith can study the Bible so closely for decades, producing a wonderful career and never breakthrough consciously to understand the priestcraft is a business.
    Well it takes a special spiritual assistance to perceive the vast estate and the amazing inheritance that it is. Consider tje significance of Mark the Evangelist going to Egypt , Ethiopia and the like. Why are most modern Western historians are quiet (or lack knowledge) about the Gospel and Apostles in Northern Africa or in Egypt or Ethiopia. Could there have been Hebrews or Israelite in those parts back then? How might such relate to certain allegedly-unfulfilled prophecies associated with Assyria, Egypt and Israel?

    Perhaps prosperity is a business, a methodology and an inheritance.

    sacrifice - Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim; To forfeit (one thing) for another thing considered to be of greater value; a surrender of something of value as a means of gaining something more desirable or of preventing some evil.
    Last edited by allodial; 12-31-13 at 05:57 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    ... Moses saved them but put them into a bondage contract of blood sacrifice, replaced by the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb of Christianity - all washed in the Blood of the Lamb Jesus CHRIST.
    Could it be that that Moses having been brought up in an Egyptian royal family became privy to the secrets of the Egyptian craft and rather than practicing them (i.e. Moses was not a magician) found such to be offensive? It may be that Egypt was not always dealing 'magic'--such could have crept in at some point in Egypt's later eras. The Exodus story has an interesting resonance with the Garden of Eden story. Moses is moreso leading them back to the Garden. To avoid a return to Egypt (sin/debt) a system was put in place.
    Last edited by allodial; 02-06-15 at 04:25 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  8. #8
    "... sacrifice is folly..."

    I guess it depends on what sacrifice and the intent behind it. I suppose animal sacrifices could be considered folly if we knew the mind of the one executing it. Although, the Levitical law regarding killing and blood was more of a purification of the ground or site/temple where prayers were to be offered and NOT as a purification of man's sins - that would be folly.

    The sacrifice of our Lord and Savior to redeem ALL of creation is NOT folly IMO. I do not believe his willing death was the culmination, or a substitute, for the sacrificial practices of the Hebrews. Cleansing the ground and cleansing one's life are two very different things.

    Jesus' sacrifice was necessary in order to save mankind from his transgressions/sins originating from, and perpetuated by, the choice of Adam to seek another for knowledge. We do NOT inherit Adam's sin; we inherit the fallen existence resulting from his sin which makes it impossible for us to NOT sin ourselves. Each of us is solely responsible for our own sins which we will inevitably commit while we live this life. We no longer enjoy the FULL protection and FULL communion with our Creator due to that choice in the garden.

    Because of that choice in the garden, the deceiver/adversary became master of the willing indentured servitude of Adam (debt-slave), and subsequently, everyone after him. God recognized this and immediately revealed His plan to redeem (buy back) His creation. He knew it was necessary to take on flesh, live as we live, conquer the world/adversary, have victory over death and restore His creation to its original state and intent.

    Jesus the Christ of Nazareth came, and was born, into this world to do just that and He did. Victory is His as He transcended the limitations of this fallen world and conquered the evil of this realm. The Kingdom is here, in part, yet the FULL culmination is yet to come whereby His children experience and enjoy eternal paradise ON EARTH as was the original plan in the garden of Eden.

    Was God capable of crushing the adversary in protection of His creation, avoiding all of known history and evil since then? Of course He was capable, His power is limitless and there exists no other who can match it. However, is that the most wise, righteous, honorable and moral thing to do in light of the cognizant and willful choice made by Adam?

    In my opinion, the answer is clear; the God of order, reason, truth and righteousness knows what the only option is - self-sacrifice redemption for the sake of the salvation of His creation. What other 'god' loves so much to do such a thing?

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