Redemption of Lawful Money at US Bank

[freedave]

Yes. Sign your demand instead of signing endorsement. Your question is whether there might be repurcussions as I understand you. Since it is written into the law I doubt it. The only repurcussions are troublesome tellers now and again, not very often but since you are mailing your check in it is likely you will never hear about any problems. Keep a copy and if you start redeeming lawful money consistently then you may be able to avoid taxes and get withholdings refunded etc.

Nobody has gotten into trouble for redeeming lawful money in itself. The only suitors who are getting flack were first customers of Peter HENDRICKSON (now in prison) and his Cracking the Code technique of Zero Income Returns. It is too early to make conclusions about it but so far the accusation of fraud by omission seems to keep the $5K frivolous penalties in limbo anyway:

If I had known in good faith that I could redeem lawful money I would have been doing so since my first paycheck ever!

Thank you, David.

Would this be correct?

Redeemed in Lawful money
Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411
John Joseph dba John Joseph Doe dba LLC name
Account number XXXXXXXXXX

And is it OK to include a deposit slip -- and, if so, should I write anything on it other than the numbers in the usual spaces indicating the amount of the check?

And would doing this be likely to cause the brokerage firm to make a report to the IRS?

[David Merrill]

Thank you, David.

Would this be correct?

Redeemed in Lawful money
Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411
John Joseph dba John Joseph Doe dba LLC name
Account number XXXXXXXXXX

And is it OK to include a deposit slip -- and, if so, should I write anything on it other than the numbers in the usual spaces indicating the amount of the check?

And would doing this be likely to cause the brokerage firm to make a report to the IRS?

The various gyrations I have been going about here are due to you depositing the check with a Brokerage Firm. I do not have any experience with a brokerage firm, even vicariously. When you make your withdrawals, distributions or collect dividends or whatever, that is when you should make your demand. I hesitate because thinking about it, what I have to compare this to is interest bearing accounts. If you are not going to allow your bank to capitalize on fractional lending with your paychecks then you do not have the right to demand interest off the money you are lending your bank. There is a kind of deposit (irregular?) where you have arranged for your bank to keep the exact same cash for your withdrawal - no mingling of funds. Redeeming lawful money is kind of like that but you do not get any interest. Often when somebody begins redeeming lawful money they find the bank has changed their account to interest-free.

I am thinking the brokerage firm considers your "investment" as interest-bearing. They may want the freedom to grow your money by conventional fractional lending too; I don't know.

If you are redeeming lawful money by demand then somebody like a boss or brokerage firm reporting you to the IRS is simply Notice that you would give anyway should you want to get a refund or withdraw money without the scope of the Fed. There are a lot of suitors who are self-employed and they do not send in withholdings. But they will send returns with evidence of redemption so that the IRS does not evaluate their tax liability in absence of a return.

I believe that you might want to treat your brokerage firm like a boss, not a bank. Do not involve them with your redemption of lawful money. While your money is with the brokerage firm I am presuming that your funds with them are tax free until you withdraw.

[freedave]

The various gyrations I have been going about here are due to you depositing the check with a Brokerage Firm. I do not have any experience with a brokerage firm, even vicariously. When you make your withdrawals, distributions or collect dividends or whatever, that is when you should make your demand. I hesitate because thinking about it, what I have to compare this to is interest bearing accounts. If you are not going to allow your bank to capitalize on fractional lending with your paychecks then you do not have the right to demand interest off the money you are lending your bank. There is a kind of deposit (irregular?) where you have arranged for your bank to keep the exact same cash for your withdrawal - no mingling of funds. Redeeming lawful money is kind of like that but you do not get any interest. Often when somebody begins redeeming lawful money they find the bank has changed their account to interest-free.

I am thinking the brokerage firm considers your "investment" as interest-bearing. They may want the freedom to grow your money by conventional fractional lending too; I don't know.

If you are redeeming lawful money by demand then somebody like a boss or brokerage firm reporting you to the IRS is simply Notice that you would give anyway should you want to get a refund or withdraw money without the scope of the Fed. There are a lot of suitors who are self-employed and they do not send in withholdings. But they will send returns with evidence of redemption so that the IRS does not evaluate their tax liability in absence of a return.

I believe that you might want to treat your brokerage firm like a boss, not a bank. Do not involve them with your redemption of lawful money. While your money is with the brokerage firm I am presuming that your funds with them are tax free until you withdraw.

Thank you for clarifying that, David.

My brokerage account does pay a very very small amount of interest to me.

I think they would function more like a bank than a boss, since they would not file a 1099 or a W-2 or other IRS form, except if I earned interest of over $10 per year, which I don't.

I don't see how I could apply the redemption of lawful money remedy regarding the check if I endorse the check to them in the usual way.

[David Merrill]

Thank you for clarifying that, David.

My brokerage account does pay a very very small amount of interest to me.

I think they would function more like a bank than a boss, since they would not file a 1099 or a W-2 or other IRS form, except if I earned interest of over $10 per year, which I don't.

I don't see how I could apply the redemption of lawful money remedy regarding the check if I endorse the check to them in the usual way.

You can make your demand. Because they are paying you some interest on your funds though, there may be some balking on their end. You seem more concerned about repurcussions than anything.

Sorry I don't know more about brokerage firms. I would make my demand for lawful money and sign that, rather than endorse private credit from the Fed. But then, until you came along I felt that I am pretty good at explaining this.

[freedave]

You can make your demand. Because they are paying you some interest on your funds though, there may be some balking on their end. You seem more concerned about repurcussions than anything.

Sorry I don't know more about brokerage firms. I would make my demand for lawful money and sign that, rather than endorse private credit from the Fed. But then, until you came along I felt that I am pretty good at explaining this.

OK, I understand.

I also have checks from the brokerage firm that I can write which I could cash at a bank if I decide not to try to apply the redemption of lawful money remedy to the brokerage firm.

The brokerage firm could also send me checks which I could cash at a bank if I decide not to try to apply the redemption of lawful money remedy to the brokerage firm.

Yes, I am concerned about potential repercussions -- I had determined that I do not owe taxes on the money that I have received -- I have also arranged things so that the money I have is relatively untraceable, and I don't want to compromise that.

You had advised me not to make a demand to the brokerage firm and now you state that I can make a demand -- I grant that this is an unusually complex situation, but I would prefer a bit more certainty before I go ahead.

I'm sure that you are pretty good at explaining this to a select group of people, but there is always room for improvement.

Perhaps if you and others were better at explaining it, the Fed and the IRS would now be out of business.

[freedave]

Would this serve the purpose?

Deposited for credit on account #XXXXXXXXXX
to be redeemed in lawful money
Title 12 USC §411
John Joseph dba John Joseph Doe dba LLC name

And would John Joseph Doe need to be in all capital letters and be in block letters?

[shikamaru]

You can make your demand. Because they are paying you some interest on your funds though, there may be some balking on their end. You seem more concerned about repurcussions than anything.

Sorry I don't know more about brokerage firms. I would make my demand for lawful money and sign that, rather than endorse private credit from the Fed. But then, until you came along I felt that I am pretty good at explaining this.

Brokerage firms specialize in brokering deals.
Brokers bring together buyers and sellers in order to effect an exchange. Brokers are agents.