endorsing and SS.......a big question!

[Chex]

Binbokusai Yagyuu go buy your tires and use this form for use in your small business deduction for your small business, here are the guidelines. If you have any questions about the form read Specific Instructions Box 1. most of all don't forget to sign the form.

[Goldi]

"Do you happen to have an example of an affidavit rebutting the presumptions for SS taxes that you could post?" Yeah, give the employer an affidavit that pursuant to Title 5 Section 552, you do not give permission to allow disclosure of any personal financial information to any 3rd party. Have it notarized and tell the employer that this is his "out" for the necessity of doing any reporting to any revenue agency. The employer needs to make a copy of that affidavit and send it in to the IRS and the state taxing agency...and YOU'RE OUT.

[jesse james]

"Do you happen to have an example of an affidavit rebutting the presumptions for SS taxes that you could post?" Yeah, give the employer an affidavit that pursuant to Title 5 Section 552, you do not give permission to allow disclosure of any personal financial information to any 3rd party. Have it notarized and tell the employer that this is his "out" for the necessity of doing any reporting to any revenue agency. The employer needs to make a copy of that affidavit and send it in to the IRS and the state taxing agency...and YOU'RE OUT.

Also, cite ADMINISTRAtIVE REGULATION 301.6109-1(d)

(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number?(1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS?5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.

Heres (b)-

(b) Requirement to furnish one's own number?(1) U.S. persons. Every U.S. person who makes under this title a return, statement, or other document must furnish its own taxpayer identifying number as required by the forms and the accompanying instructions. A U.S. person whose number must be included on a document filed by another person must give the taxpayer identifying number so required to the other person on request. For penalties for failure to supply taxpayer identifying numbers, see sections 6721 through 6724. For provisions dealing specifically with the duty of employees with respect to their social security numbers, see ?31.6011(b)-2 (a) and (b) of this chapter (Employment Tax Regulations). For provisions dealing specifically with the duty of employers with respect to employer identification numbers, see ?31.6011(b)-1 of this chapter (Employment Tax Regulations).

In order for the requirment to file a 1040 you first earn "wages". In order to earn "wages" (requirement to furnish one own number) you must first have to authorize the employer to treat your earnings as taxable "wages" and withhold accordingly. This magical document is a form W4 and requires your signiture meaning the W4 is not mandatory. Earning taxable "wages" is not mandatory.
The Social Security Act has no mandatory participation clause in the Act and thus why ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION 301.6109-1(d) has verbage to that effect.

Thanks for chiming in Goldi!

Theres a particular person on this forum who is dead set against me and beleives, for some odd reason, I'm a disinformationist from the "banking cabal".
He is the way he is because I dont beleive in merrills theory of fiat being the cause of taxation nor in pete hendrickson theory of the government employee stance.
To this day this person cannot procure any statutory evidence, to the likes of 26usc 3101 and 26usc 3402 for participating in Social Security, that easily explains why earnings are taxable.
You'll see what I mean when he chimes in blabbering his ego to no end.

[Goldi]

"I dont beleive in merrills theory of fiat being the cause of taxation" - Jesse james, I do believe it. I believe a secret lien arises when you use their FRN's with a naked signature indorsement. A bifurcated title arises on everything you purchase with FRNs. But that is not what occurs on the surface. They have deftly hidden the real underlying relation in debtor/creditor jargon within the statutes. If nearly 100 percent of taxes goes to paying the interest on the bonds that are generated as a result of the currency that is printed, then there lies your "tax liability". I think you might be confusing FICA with federal income tax liability.

[JohnnyCash]

Goldi, can you upload a sanitized scan of that affidavit/letter for us?

[Goldi]

No, but the terminology was provided in a previous post. You have to do it under a notary seal.

[jesse james]

"I dont beleive in merrills theory of fiat being the cause of taxation" - Jesse james, I do believe it. I believe a secret lien arises when you use their FRN's with a naked signature indorsement. A bifurcated title arises on everything you purchase with FRNs. But that is not what occurs on the surface. They have deftly hidden the real underlying relation in debtor/creditor jargon within the statutes. If nearly 100 percent of taxes goes to paying the interest on the bonds that are generated as a result of the currency that is printed, then there lies your "tax liability". I think you might be confusing FICA with federal income tax liability.

Goldie ....yes FICA is the taxes associated with participating in Social Security. However, by participating in Social Security you are imposed the 3402 imposition as well.
Go read section 3401(a) of title 26 and tell me you dont see Social Security written anywhere in that section. What you'll find is that there are 22 exclusions to 3401(a) "wages". Roughly 20 of those exclusions come directly from Social Security, 3121(b) "employment" to be exact. What it means is that what Social Security excludes from the 3121(b) "employment" is also excluded from 3401(a) "wages".
Social Security by definition to 3121(b) "employmeny" and 3121(a) "wages" is dictating what is and what is not 3401(a) "wages". So what Social Security disqualifies to earn credits towards benefits does not qualify as taxable 3401(a) "wages".
So the next question is if you dont participate in Social Security at all then you are not crediting your SS account towards SS benefits. Therefore the rules of SS as a whole have NO effect on your earnings period. If theres no respect to 3121(b) "employment" then chapter 24 has no effect in deeming your earnings as 3401(a) "wages" or not for that matter!
No W3 reporting takes effect!

[jesse james]

No, but the terminology was provided in a previous post. You have to do it under a notary seal.

Ohhhhh watch out Goldie......... he'll accuse you of being a bankster minnion or a quatlooser if you dont supply him a photo.
As if his opinion is worth anything at all!

[Goldi]

jesse james, have you reviewed the thread called "exactly what does the IRS agent think?" on this forum?

[jesse james]

jesse james, have you reviewed the thread called "exactly what does the IRS agent think?" on this forum?

No, I dont give any credence to this site at all. Not when the sites premise is wrong.
Participating in Social Securitry and being paid in any medium, including gold or silver or lawful money, isnt going to stop the W3 reporting to credit the SS account. You can be paid in cow manure and you will still get a W3 transmittal sent to the SSA listing amounts paid.
The irs uses the information from the SSA (the W3 reporting) to update its database.
Stop the reporting (dont participate) and the irs has absolutely nothing to base any liability or assessment on.
Heck stop participating and you dont earn "wages" either!

Besides just what do you think the IRS agent is going to think when you argue an erronous premise?

[Goldi]

On that thread it shows proof of people getting refunds when they have shown the proper indorsements on "income" checks. So the W-2,3,4 stuff makes no difference. They can report until the cows come home. If you can prove your intent to use only lawful money by way of a restricted indorsement on the back of the paycheck and destroy your purported tax liability, I think your premise needs to be reconsidered.

[Goldi]

Now, take THIS into consideration. Back about 6 months ago I was asked to facilitate the sale of some precious metals. I went to a preferred vendor, one who I had done business with, and the deal was struck. My friend mailed the metals to the vendor and I was asked to assist with the wire transfer details. I told the vendor to place on the "beneficiary instructions" line of the wire transfer document that the transfer is being made in 100% lawful money. The woman on the phone said, "well that's a first"...I said "I'm sure it is." The next day I get a call from her and she says "our lawyers have instructed us that we cannot do what you ask with regard to the lawful money notation and that we have to cancel the transaction if you will not agree". Now, this was a 5 figure transaction. So you tell me...why would the lawyers nix this simple little notation on a wire transfer document to the detriment of a 5 figure transaction if "there is nothing to this" and the whole premise is bull sh@t ????????? Now I know why they did that, but the point of the matter is that the lawyers know what it means too.

[David Merrill]

Excellent point.

Please explain why they could not let it go!

[Goldi]

Excellent point.

Please explain why they could not let it go!

Because the vendor is licensed to operate in that fictional venue and cannot be compelled to deal in lawful money from their end. IOW I cannot compel anyone to deal in lawful money, all I can do is deal in it from my end.

[jesse james]

Because the vendor is licensed to operate in that fictional venue and cannot be compelled to deal in lawful money from their end. IOW I cannot compel anyone to deal in lawful money, all I can do is deal in it from my end.

Dont go flying off the handle Goldie......theres more to the story isnt there.
I've read on here that banks dont like the lawful money thingy either and hand out fiat anyway.
Just how is the transaction being processed?
Where you trying to pay cash to skirt around the reporting requirement?
Seems there is a reporting law now saying anything over a certain amount is to be reported.
Bank transactions have a 5 figure 10,000.00 limit. Anything over 10,000.00 is to be reported. Were you trying to transact in cold cash to skirt around the reporting radar?
If you were then yes I can see the lawyers point of view as they would be liable for sanctions/fines and possible prison terms.

Just like Johnnycash here beleives in this "lawful money" theory works when the truth is he doesnt report on himself as he is in bussiness for himself...which is good he has that option to participate or not.
Johnnycash's wife had to file because she is "employed" because she participates in Social security. So why wouldnt she just redeem lawful money if its as easy as he says it is? Mean while Johnny is passing this off as insignificant.......yeah right!
And to further Johnny's dishonesty he says every now and then that his wife enjoys the huge return she gets....yep now thats being no better than a family of 5 generations working the system when they could be honest and just go to work.

Johnny doesnt report which is the test of all test for this lawful money theory.
I'd like to see someone here participate in Social Security and have all the required deductions and taxes taken from thier paycheck and file a 1040 using this "lawful money" idea demanding all their monies return and see what the IRS sends them.
I'll put my money on the irs that they will send three warning shots to file a correct 1040 before they invoke a 5,000.00 frivolous penalty per filing.
And guess where the IRS gets all the "income" data to send a return check or send a deficiency notice?.........the Social Security Administration!


You are NOT getting around Social Security's 3121(b) "employment" and its reporting requirements unless you stop participating all together.