endorsing and SS.......a big question!

[stoneFree]

careful Shikamaru, he gets a little testy when shown to be a liar.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4556/governmentbondslarge.jpg

".. if we can persuade people all through the country, when their salary checks come in, to deposit them in new accounts, which will be held in trust and kept in one of the new forms I have mentioned, we shall have made progress."

The Public Papers and Addresses of Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 1933, The Year of Crisis.

[Treefarmer]

I told you before and I'll tell you again on this forum....................banking has nothing at all to do with Social Security and your right to participate in Social Security.
The banks will go down and the imposition and liability found within the Social Security Act will still remain.

I disagree with your first statement jesse james, even though I think you are probably right about the SS Act remaining after Banks go insolvent, unless some well-hidden legislative clauses are revealed or fabricated when that happens.

The reason that I disagree that banking has nothing to do with SS is because it looks to me like the "voluntary" SS program was the cheese in the mousetrap of private central banking.
There is always free bait in a mousetrap.

This is also why we look at title 12 USC 411 here at StSC. Notice that it says "Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."

Now that's puzzling; how did these FRNs ever get into the hands of people, who use them like money, if they are for no other purpose than making advances to Fed banks?

At what point do people contract to become Fed banks?
And what exactly is that signature endorsing on the back of a check? Seems superfluous, since the front is already made out to that name. And if the signature is supposed to be an acknowledgement of receipt of cash, then why is it not on the front of the check?
What exactly happens contractually on the back of the check or on the bank signature card for that matter?
I have never been able to get an answer to this question from any Master of Business Administration, banker, or attorney, even though I personally know some of them.

But it gets worse.
There's that giant stinking elephant hidden in plain sight, that nobody wants to see: according to popular wisdom promulgated through compulsory school curriculae, and regurgitated by so many bureaucrats, US agencies, citizens, people, and so-called "lawyers", there's a direct capitation in the land of the US of A, or whatever anyone wants to call it, which the so-called IRS is in the business of collecting. At the same time though this US of A declares to be governed by a Constitution (according to compulsory school curriculae), from which it supposedly derives its governing consent from the People who inhabit this US of A, which prohibits direct capitations.

Now isn't that something?
How is this possible? This is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know.

The 16th Amendment cannot be the cause, because an Amendment must not be in direct contradiction to the main body of the Constitution, and furthermore US courts have repeatedly declared that it "confers no new powers of taxation".
HENDRICKSON has a pretty good collection of these cases here.

I do not dispute the veracity of most of HENDRICKSON's case research, I only disagree with his conclusions, especially after he has demonstrated his spectacular failure.
Like a martyr, he has inadvertently revealed the trap which was evidently built into the current Central Banking System from its inception at the "New Deal", of which the SS program was the bait.

This is why we examine the nature of "income" and Lawful money here at StSC.
I also suspect that this is why the IRS in the IRC so studiously avoids giving a true definition of income, and instead merely pretends to define the term, while giving out no information at all about the nature of that income.

There have been enough martyrs who have fought and lost to the IRS and its shadowy masters, that we can connect many dots at this late point in time. There have been many wrong theories on the nature of the "US income tax" and many brave martyrs have revealed them, at great cost to themselves.
After all false leads have been eliminated, the truth, by God's grace, will shine forth.

Thank you for starting this thread jesse james, and for all your contributions and engagement.

[motla68]

careful Shikamaru, he gets a little testy when shown to be a liar.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4556/governmentbondslarge.jpg

".. if we can persuade people all through the country, when their salary checks come in, to deposit them in new accounts, which will be held in trust and kept in one of the new forms I have mentioned, we shall have made progress."

The Public Papers and Addresses of Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 1933, The Year of Crisis.

EE Savings Bond

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ebonds/res_e_bonds.htm

<--
" you can use toward financing education, supplemental retirement income, birthday and graduation gifts, and other special events. "

[jesse james]

Ok .....seriously?
You cannot go into reading law beleiving a conspiracy exists!
This is exactly what hendrickson did to mold his theory around the law turning it into baited mumbo jumbo!
All this says:

"Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (A group of bankers, IMF) for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks (every country, except for Iran and Libya, has a reserve central bank)through the Federal reserve agents (more guys who understand banking, google reserve agents) as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized (Stop right here. Beyond this point the subject changes to what the notes are to be used for and by who). The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."

The reserve system is a big comglamerate of bankers that Congress allowed to replace the US Treasury money issueing system (checks and balances). This board of governors under discretion (checks and balances) authorizes dollars to go to central banks through reserve agents (more checks and balances) to be distributed to member banks and credit unions and such for you for paying debt, taxes, customs and so forth.
Heck they have to issue more fiat as every week millions of Americans were getting paid (trading their labor for a service) with a check that never before did money exist until they "drawn" against the paycheck.
This is as simple as reading "see spot run" for Christs sake!

And you guys think theres a conspiracy?
Werent you listening before when I said between 1913 ( the year the reserve act was enacted) and 1935 ramping up to 1940 that most Americans didnt pay any income tax and earlier than 1913. They didnt pay income taxes because they didnt volunteer themselves into the system until they applied for a ssn.
Check the IRS website....they will tell you ten of millions of Americans didnt pay any income taxes prior 1940 to the conception of this country.
So you have roughly between 1913 and 1935 ramping up to 1940 where a majority of Americans didnt pay any income taxes.
So history is saying you have a big obstacle (1913 to 1940) to overcome in order for this conspiracy theory to hold any creditability!

[shikamaru]

Ok .....seriously?
You cannot go into reading law beleiving a conspiracy exists!
This is exactly what hendrickson did to mold his theory around the law turning it into baited mumbo jumbo!
All this says:

The reserve system is a big comglamerate of bankers that Congress allowed to replace the US Treasury money issueing system (checks and balances). This board of governors under discretion (checks and balances) authorizes dollars to go to central banks through reserve agents (more checks and balances) to be distributed to member banks and credit unions and such for you for paying debt, taxes, customs and so for.

And you guys think theres a conspiracy?
Werent you listening before when I said between 1913 and 1935 ramping up to 1940 that most Americans didnt pay any income tax. They didnt pay income taxes because they didnt volunteer themselves into the system until they applied for a ssn.
Check the IRS website....they will tell you ten of millions of Americans didnt pay any income taxes.
So you have roughly between 1913 and 1935 ramping up to 1`940 where a majority of Americans didnt pay any income taxes.
So history is saying you have a big obstacle (1913 to 1940) to overcome in order for this conspiracy theory to hold any creditability!

By what warrant did the U.S. government have to seize the gold of its citizens?

[jesse james]

By what warrant did the U.S. government have to seize the gold of its citizens?

Read the act!
Who are subjects that I've been posting having very little ptoections of the Bill of Rights?
The US government is subject to the People!
Who is subject to the US government by an amendment?

Do you understand why states have governors and the federal government has a president, vice president, treasurer and so on.
Know anything about corporations?
Do corporations have presidents, vice presidents and treasurers or do corporations have governors?

Hmmmm........any light bulbs suddenly turning on for you?
Its been out in the open this whole time.

[shikamaru]

Read the act!

What act are you speaking of?
That does not answer the question of by what warrant does the US government seize the gold of its citizens?

Who are subjects that I've been posting having very little ptoections of the Bill of Rights?
The US government is subject to the People!
Who is subject to the US government by an amendment?

That's not how they behave, number 1.
Number 2, you are not one of the People (their opinion).
The Constitutions, all of them, have been ruses to get people to coop into their own subjugation.

Do you understand why states have governors and the federal government has a president, vice president, treasurer and so on.
Know anything about corporations?
Do corporations have presidents, vice presidents and treasurers or do corporations have governors?

Hmmmm........any light bulbs suddenly turning on for you?
Its been out in the open this whole time.

Commonwealth (republic) is still a corporation. They are all corporations.

[jesse james]

What act are you speaking of?
That does not answer the question of by what warrant does the US government seize the gold of its citizens?



That's not how they behave, number 1.
Number 2, you are not one of the People (their opinion).
The Constitutions, all of them, have been ruses to get people to coop into their own subjugation.



Commonwealth (republic) is still a corporation. They are all corporations.

I'm speaking of the gold confiscation act.............I beleive it was an act? If not, the president can only dictate to its subjects, not the People, unless it was a presidential executive order. Come to think of it I think it was an executive order. Here it is in part.

Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term “hoarding” means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term “person” means any individuals, partnership, association or corporation.

Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value

Correct, you are not one of the People. Its not their opinion or anybodies opinion you are listed as a US citizen and acting like subjected US citizen by asking them for permission to do something.....drivers license, marraige license!
After all it takes your signiture does it not? So it therefore is not an opinion at all.
Have you ever seen the government dictate to the People or to Us citizens?
Commonwealth republic.................yeah its a corporation....you've made my point!

[shikamaru]

I'm speaking of the gold confiscation act.............I beleive it was an act? If not, the president can only dictate to its subjects, not the People, unless it was a presidential executive order. Come to think of it I think it was an executive order.

Trading with the Enemies Act of 1917
Emergency Banking Relief Act of 1933
Gold Reserve Act of 1934

Executive Order 6102
Invalidation and reissue of aforementioned executive order
Campbell v. Chase National Bank of New York (1933)
Executive Order 6102
Executive Order 6111
Executive Order 6260
Executive Order 6261

Default of the Fourth Liberty Bond

Exchange Stabilization Fund

Its not their opinion or anybodies opinion you are listed as a US citizen and acting like subjected US citizen by asking them for permission to do something.....drivers license, marraige license!

This is true. Licenses are not contracts though. Licenses are servitudes.

After all it takes your signiture does it not?

Signature and name

[jesse james]

Trading with the Enemies Act of 1917
Emergency Banking Relief Act of 1933
Gold Reserve Act of 1934

Executive Order 6102
Invalidation and reissue of aforementioned executive order
Campbell v. Chase National Bank of New York (1933)
Executive Order 6102
Executive Order 6111
Executive Order 6260
Executive Order 6261

Default of the Fourth Liberty Bond

Exchange Stabilization Fund



This is true. Licenses are not contracts though. Licenses are servitudes.



Signature and name

Did you know that all Congressional Acts are territorial in nature?
This is why you see in the Social Security Act redefined "state" to include DC (which is not a state) Puerto Rico, Quam, Virgin island and such other treeitories and insulars included in the term "state".
So "the state of Iowa" is no different than Puerto Rico or Dc as far as the Act is concerned.
"Iowa" is one of the 50 states of the union belonging to (what I refer as the confederation of union states) "of America" while the "the state of Iowa" is the federal side belonging to the "United States" (notice the "of America" missing) that the District of Columbia and territories are equals. Research the Buck Act for more on this subject.

The Us Constitution restricts the federal government to go into union state territory except for dock yards, millitary fortifications, arsenals and such. Well since the 14th amendment now established a federal citizen they needed some how to control these new federal 2nd class citizens in the boundaries of the union states, so the Buck Act came about.
Yes an act was enacted called the Buck Act that used the exact boundries of Union States for federal states. The federal state for "Iowa" is called "the state of Iowa".
Look at your drivers license and tell me you dont see "the state of"!

[shikamaru]

Did you know that all Congressional Acts are territorial in nature?
This is why you see in the Social Security Act redefined "state" to include DC (which is not a state) Puerto Rico, Quam, Virgin island and such other treeitories and insulars included in the term "state".
So "the state of Iowa" is no different than Puerto Rico or Dc as far as the Act is concerned.
"Iowa" is one of the 50 states of the union belonging to (what I refer as the confederation of union states) "of America" while the "the state of Iowa" is the federal side belonging to the "United States" (notice the "of America" missing) that the District of Columbia and territories are equals. Research the Buck Act for more on this subject.

Well aware of all this.

The Us Constitution restricts the federal government to go into union state territory except for dock yards, millitary fortifications, arsenals and such. Well since the 14th amendment now established a federal citizen they needed some how to control these new federal 2nd class citizens in the boundaries of the union states, so the Buck Act came about.
Yes an act was enacted called the Buck Act that used the exact boundries of Union States for federal states. The federal state for "Iowa" is called "the state of Iowa".

Well aware of this as well.

Look at your drivers license and tell me you dont see "the state of"!

The State (belonging to) <such and such>.

[jesse james]

One of the hardest things for CtCer's to understand is the term "state"........still is for most of them!
I explained the Social Security Act to them a few times in the past and they said I didnt know what I was talking about when it came to the redefined term "state".
Kept saying "stand tall warriors" and "Pete is right and has them on the run".
Unbeleivable!
Yet it was right there in black and white english that a child of the third grade level can easily comprehend and still they refuse to beleive what the redefined term was telling them.
Pete is just an elegant writer, nothing more........................cracked nothing!
Caused a lot of people to get outlandish fines and imprisonment for his writing skills.

[stoneFree]

Scroll up jesse, you're not at a CtC forum. Check this, here's a scan of the MISS YOU letter the IRS sent Freeman after he walked off the federal tax plantation:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4525/missyous.png

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7798/backside.png

Of course he didn't respond, and the IRS did nothing.

BTW, I see constitutional dollars are on sale today, thanks to the banking cartel (operating through JPMorganChase). Stock up!

[Treefarmer]

Trading with the Enemies Act of 1917
Emergency Banking Relief Act of 1933
Gold Reserve Act of 1934

Executive Order 6102
Invalidation and reissue of aforementioned executive order
Campbell v. Chase National Bank of New York (1933)
Executive Order 6102
Executive Order 6111
Executive Order 6260
Executive Order 6261

Default of the Fourth Liberty Bond

Exchange Stabilization Fund



This is true. Licenses are not contracts though. Licenses are servitudes.



Signature and name

Thank you shikamaru; that's excellent info to have here in this thread.
You rock!

[Treefarmer]

Ok .....seriously?
You cannot go into reading law beleiving a conspiracy exists!
This is exactly what hendrickson did to mold his theory around the law turning it into baited mumbo jumbo!
All this says:

The reserve system is a big comglamerate of bankers that Congress allowed to replace the US Treasury money issueing system (checks and balances). This board of governors under discretion (checks and balances) authorizes dollars to go to central banks through reserve agents (more checks and balances) to be distributed to member banks and credit unions and such for you for paying debt, taxes, customs and so forth.
Heck they have to issue more fiat as every week millions of Americans were getting paid (trading their labor for a service) with a check that never before did money exist until they "drawn" against the paycheck.
This is as simple as reading "see spot run" for Christs sake!

And you guys think theres a conspiracy?
Werent you listening before when I said between 1913 ( the year the reserve act was enacted) and 1935 ramping up to 1940 that most Americans didnt pay any income tax and earlier than 1913. They didnt pay income taxes because they didnt volunteer themselves into the system until they applied for a ssn.
Check the IRS website....they will tell you ten of millions of Americans didnt pay any income taxes prior 1940 to the conception of this country.
So you have roughly between 1913 and 1935 ramping up to 1940 where a majority of Americans didnt pay any income taxes.
So history is saying you have a big obstacle (1913 to 1940) to overcome in order for this conspiracy theory to hold any creditability!

I'm disappointed in you jesse james. I had hoped you would honestly attempt to answer my questions.
Ignoring a part of 12 USC 411 just because it doesn't fit your story just doesn't cut it.

Do you know Pete HENDRICKSON so well that you can be sure he was looking for a conspiracy when he researched the IRC?
What makes you think that anybody here would read the IRC because they are looking for a conspiracy?

I have some more questions for you:

What do you mean by "checks and balances"?

Who or what authorized Congress "to replace the US Treasury money issueing (sic) system" with the Federal Reserve System?

Don't let me down jesse james; this thread was moving along nicely until you got dodgy.