can you prove your identity?

[Michael Joseph]

Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
I asked you to identify me absent trusting in another. If you take the Word of Mom and Dad, then you TRUST they are not lying. How is this any way proof of my identity? What?, men and women don't lie? I bet I can drag in two to Claim they are my Mom and Dad will you believe them? How does their witness identify me?

However, your response goes to societal trust - two or more witnesses. Will these be required to take an oath before the Ever Living - at Beersheba - the Well of Oaths? What if these are atheists?

Furthermore, will Mom and Dad show up every day to give their testimony of my Identity?

I just caught David's response regarding Photo. Photo will not get it. I can change every aspect of my appearance. How will you know it me tomorrow?

Please attempt to focus and stay on topic. The topic is Identity. Clearly a Name is not identity.

I know that the Name of God is on you from today:

The 72-Fold Name originates from the (click) 72 letters/verse in Exodus 14:19-21.

I once took a supercomputer to task to find the best standard for resonance in the Table of Relative Weights. If you look at that equation you will find too that Gadolinium 157 (named after God btw) is the best 157/157=1 Standard to near all the other values closer to 1 [rather than 12/12=1 Carbon 12]. So there is a place were the 0.99999'ss become 1.0000001's and there is a place where the 1.0000001's become .9999999's. Those two places on the Improved Table are Gadolinium 157 and Germanium 72 - like the 72-Fold Name of God.

When I meet with you today (bottom of Page 15), I will take a DNA scan:

I will sum up everything about every memory of every event in history adding up to Michael Joseph - ever recorded; which is sum total, the man I meet today. Total Theory. Everybody is a mathematician - look closely! Bring this image up full screen ("+" cursor and F11), cross your eyes a little and then relax them while still 'looking'. Your brain might perform an FFT and show you Moses' Burning Bush! - Or better yet; you might have the sky come forward, and you will see the bush like a fist punched into soft clay? [View the incident from God's perspective? That is how your brain does the math?]

Today I might take your thumbprint and then tomorrow when we meet do that again, should the need for security be so great. If you show up tomorrow with an acid burned thumb and sorry excuses though, I will put a NOACHIDE title upon you - nakar, nokriy. "...feign self to be another," [Foreigner in Deuteronomy 15:1-3 and stranger in 23:20. So now MICHAEL JOSEPH is right back where Michael Joseph was before he began non-endorsing the national debt.] You are now suspect about defrauding me, a representative of the community. If I identify myself with Israel of the Bible my community (state) will identify you with the Children of Noah... Page 1, Page 2.

You will be correctly identified, mainly because I know who I am. Either way, you will be correctly identified.



Regards,

David Merrill.

David Merrill you have gone to the meat of this matter. I thought for sure there would be many who would come with :

1. How I Sound; or
2. How I Look; or
3. My personality; or
4. My memory; or
5. My Soul; or
6. My Spirit; or

Yet none of these things is able to Identify me to you tomorrow. For Items 1 - 4 can be revised. Items 5 - 6 cannot be seen to the Physical World. Therefore how can the Physical World Identify a man?

Let me cut to the chase - It is IMPOSSIBLE. If you think it possible - then enter the arena - and lets get it on.

Therefore, since it is impossible for a man to be identified from day to day - Persons were created.....Selah....

And now, because I just can't help myself, from Acts 17 - the Commonwealth of Yisra'el:

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

As in I trust in Him. Yet, how do I know you are who you say you are when dealing in commercial affairs. Why your twin brother may just show up and confuse me. Do we need a third party or can i trust in you?

The only way to overcome the problem of Identity is to TRUST. You either Trust in a third Party or you Trust the living soul before you. Yet at the end of the day, the problem of Identity still exists as even the best "devices" can be overcome by a skillful man.

[Michael Joseph]

I can see your first point, it is all relative and subject to change at any given moment.

My direction was more towards description of body rather then name though.

Exactly. Look at a Stream. It looks the same most every day. But is it? Each second new Hydrogen and Oxygen elements are coming and going. So in effect the Stream is NEVER the same. So tell me what about Man is ever the same so that we can gain a purchase on Identity? Nothing!

[David Merrill]

Please update your quote with my finished Post above thank you.

My confidence in identifying you tomorrow is as much correct as how accurately I identify myself today. I only know you by title. The simplest title is Michael Joseph and in the simplest example I gave, for commercial negotiations I would pigeonhole you into a subcategory Michael Joseph the Israelite (fellow/brother) or Noachide (subject to usury and not forgiven debt every seventh year).

[Michael Joseph]

I think I updated like you indicated...if you are thinking something different - let me know. I am getting used to the environment.....

Excellent. But notice that the frame that you context your response is within Trust in God. As we go to Deuteronomy or Leviticus to determine the Law. So then what if I have a twin the looks exactly like me, sounds like me, acts like me - what of Identity Now? Will you trust that my Twin is "Persona" - Michael Joseph?

If we Trust in God - we truly stand before the Ever Living and are Completely Liable for our actions - Just ask Korah. Numbers 16. Yehovah will not tolerate false balances - Proverbs 11:1.

Therefore Identity within a Yisra'elite system is based in Yehovah. Therefore Yehovah said "Do all things in my Name".

And later the Commonwealth was opened up to all nations - in Him - Acts 17:28. Peter being told - call no man common.

Yet Yisra'el defaulted on the Trust Agreement [Covenant if you like] and the Resulting Trust was picked up by the Sons of Cain - Jeremiah 35. The city builders who are well skilled at commerce - their Dad was the King of Tyrus. Yet these too will have truth - just in a different system.

Jdg 9:15 And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.

cedars of Lebanon = children of Yisra'el. The bramble has a system under the Well of Oaths - Penalty of Perjury - yet these too are based in truth. The bramble creates Persona's and the Persona's are Identified. Because Man cannot be identified.

Survey questions like - DL, SSN, picture ID [2nd Form], DOB - all go to Survey and Identify the Persona.

[David Merrill]

I think I updated like you indicated...if you are thinking something different - let me know. I am getting used to the environment.....

Excellent. But notice that the frame that you context your response is within Trust in God. As we go to Deuteronomy or Leviticus to determine the Law. So then what if I have a twin the looks exactly like me, sounds like me, acts like me - what of Identity Now? Will you trust that my Twin is "Persona" - Michael Joseph?

If we Trust in God - we truly stand before the Ever Living and are Completely Liable for our actions - Just ask Korah. Numbers 16. Yehovah will not tolerate false balances - Proverbs 11:1.

Therefore Identity within a Yisra'elite system is based in Yehovah. Therefore Yehovah said "Do all things in my Name".

And later the Commonwealth was opened up to all nations - in Him - Acts 17:28. Peter being told - call no man common.

Yet Yisra'el defaulted on the Trust Agreement [Covenant if you like] and the Resulting Trust was picked up by the Sons of Cain - Jeremiah 35. The city builders who are well skilled at commerce - their Dad was the King of Tyrus. Yet these too will have truth - just in a different system.

Jdg 9:15 And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.

cedars of Lebanon = children of Yisra'el. The bramble has a system under the Well of Oaths - Penalty of Perjury - yet these too are based in truth. The bramble creates Persona's and the Persona's are Identified. Because Man cannot be identified.

Survey questions like - DL, SSN, picture ID [2nd Form], DOB - all go to Survey and Identify the Persona.

Grab a current Quote (Ctrl-C) of my post and Replace it (Ctrl-V) into your Post. You were working on it while I was still editing. Sometimes I will put a red Still Editing... at the end but today I neglected to.

The Boundaries and Survey are seldom thought about in Western Christianity. I am speaking of the fundamental difference in laws. The Israelites/Jews have the Ten Commandments (you neglected to mention Exodus, specifically the Laws of Moses - Chapters 20-24:7) and everybody else has the Seven Noachide Laws.

If you or your twin show up as Michael Joseph - only one of you wears that TITLE in honor - that determines metaphysically what your TITLE is - brother, or child of Noah. Presuming that I identify myself with Israel of the Bible - which I do not. [Serving God in his Bloodthirsty State at the Golden Calf Orgy is rather cumbersome, even through the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb, Jesus CHRIST.] Think about it, before the Income Tax a man had to slaughter his prize-perfect bull and soforth; sounds a lot like an income tax to me!



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Michael Joseph]

Grab a current Quote (Ctrl-C) of my post and Replace it (Ctrl-V) into your Post. You were working on it while I was still editing. Sometimes I will put a red Still Editing... at the end but today I neglected to.

The Boundaries and Survey are seldom thought about in Western Christianity. I am speaking of the fundamental difference in laws. The Israelites/Jews have the Ten Commandments (you neglected to mention Exodus, specifically the Laws of Moses - Chapters 20-24:7) and everybody else has the Seven Noachide Laws.

If you or your twin show up as Michael Joseph - only one of you wears that TITLE in honor - that determines metaphysically what your TITLE is - brother, or child of Noah. Presuming that I identify myself with Israel of the Bible - which I do not. [Serving God in his Bloodthirsty State at the Golden Calf Orgy is rather cumbersome, even through the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb, Jesus CHRIST.] Think about it, before the Income Tax a man had to slaughter his prize-perfect bull and soforth; sounds a lot like an income tax to me!



Regards,

David Merrill.

You know this is not the place here as we are discussing Identity; but Yehovah did away with Animal Sacrifice long before Yehoshuah. I know where you are getting the Everyone Else doctrine from Acts yet if you read on they all came to agreement at the Tribunal in Jerusalem that they would preach Noahide Laws but that the people naturally at each Sabbath would hear Moses.

ah heck, I will do it Hosea 6:6. Love and Mercy is the Sacrifice that Yehovah desires. A strict reading of Isaiah 6:4 will also show that Yehovah did away with Animal Blood Sacrifice.

The Income Tax today "as you put it" - is your Mercy and Love - Charity to your fellow man.

----

Yet back to identity; while the Fake Claiming the Title is undeserving of it - how can one know unless one is a Watchman and has been Watching for a long time? The latter question goes very deep.

Therefore relationships are built on trust - your action - honor. To me what you call yourself is inconsequential. I know after a while if I can trust you or not. A watchman watches.

What if I start calling myself Michael son of Joseph. That is true as well. A name has nothing to do with identifying a man. For tomorrow if I completely change my whole outward appearance and start calling myself Andrew Michael how would you know it's me? Therefore the shortcut in LEGAL LAND - legal fictions - persona.

Nothing new under the Sun -

Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.

Yet men desire to place constructs neatly in a box so that they can label the box - it makes things easier. If the Label shares the same Rights well then things get a whole lot easier. Especially for the ones in the eaves.

[martin earl]

My Identity is self-evident, as are my rights, endowed upon me by my creator, they need no witness, no certification, no record or agreement.

If I put my mark on something, I can attest to it, as can the witness to the event. That mark might be special for just that event.

Now, if we are to go strictly by the law, I should dip the great toe of my right foot into the blood of the sacrificial animal and seal the covenant record. That is where the "Thumb print in red ink" comes from.

I am is self-evident, Word bonded and blood atoned.

[Michael Joseph]

My Identity is self-evident, as are my rights, endowed upon me by my creator, they need no witness, no certification, no record or agreement.

If I put my mark on something, I can attest to it, as can the witness to the event. That mark might be special for just that event.

Now, if we are to go strictly by the law, I should dip the great toe of my right foot into the blood of the sacrificial animal and seal the covenant record. That is where the "Thumb print in red ink" comes from.

I am is self-evident, Word bonded and blood atoned.

who are you again? your assertion that you can be identified as self evident is absurd. There is nothing about you that cannot be changed. Fact is what if you were seized and your memories erased. There is nothing physical, mental or spiritual that does not change about you. Nothing. So my or your ability to identify ourselves in not inherent within ourselves. Others must trust we are who we say we are. Oh by the way martin earl, whats your last name? ROFLMAO.....

I suppose you have never entered upon any commercial endeavors martin earl; else if you had you might appreciate that those who engage you might want to know it is you they are dealing with. I am still waiting for that Last name, martin earl.....I am still laughing.

[martin earl]

who are you again? your assertion that you can be identified as self evident is absurd. There is nothing about you that cannot be changed. Fact is what if you were seized and your memories erased. There is nothing physical, mental or spiritual that does not change about you. Nothing. So my or your ability to identify ourselves in not inherent within ourselves. Others must trust we are who we say we are. Oh by the way martin earl, whats your last name? ROFLMAO.....

I suppose you have never entered upon any commercial endeavors martin earl; else if you had you might appreciate that those who engage you might want to know it is you they are dealing with. I am still waiting for that Last name, martin earl.....I am still laughing.

Those who know me can identify me and they do not need a name to it. That which makes me me is eternal and transcends this physical illusion, the I AM that is me was before, now and forever.

Who am I? If you are asking me to revel my New Name, I cannot do that here, not the time nor the place, nor have the proper signs and tokens been presented to qualify for such a revelation.

I have and do enter into commercial endeavors under many names, even the dreaded Trust name when there is an explicit agreement between the STATE and I as to what I accept and agree to in doing so.

Others trust in me has nothing to do with a name, but with my actions toward and with them. Should I violate that trust, no name is needed, as my accusers can stand witness that I AM who they trusted.

I have no "self" to identify, as I am self-evident, even if my memories were erased, I would still exist, changed for my experiences here, but still me.

[Michael Joseph]

well you have effectively ducked the entire argument. Tell me how those who know you can identify you? What is it about you that is so identifiable that other men lack?

Even the State cannot identify you. The State identifies its Person. Thank you for making my point.

Identity is a HUGE problem. Thus the Persona.

Who you are or who I am is of no consequence to this argument of what about me allows others to know with a surety it is me tomorrow. There is nothing about me that identifies me tomorrow.

Names change so a name cannot identify a man. If I met you today martin earl and we scheduled a time to meet tomorrow what about you would allow me to know it is you that I have met? There is nothing about you that strictly speaking can identify you tomorrow.

You ask why in the heck is he pushing this...BECAUSE the State created persons are used to mend the Impossibility of Identifying a man. The Person is easily identifiable - SSN, DL, DOB, etc. And if you even look remotely like the picture on the DL well then that's good enough. So then what if my identity is stolen - ROFLMAO.....my identity can never be proven - only the Person.

I do not believe i ever entered the option of Law to establish the identity of a man. How absurd. Law has no bearing in regard to the Physical Eyes (five senses) and the Spiritual Eyes.

Whether or not someone trusts in you has no bearing on your identity. I could care less about the State; the State has nothing to do with the Physical or Spiritual Identity of a man.

For those who think they can identify themselves, I open the door and put forth the challenge. Whether or not you deem it important, I could care less. The argument is that you cannot identify yourself. I'll wait.....

[Michael Joseph]

Just found this on the web regarding Identity and its importance

I like this one too

[martin earl]

well you have effectively ducked the entire argument. Tell me how those who know you can identify you? What is it about you that is so identifiable that other men lack?

Even the State cannot identify you. The State identifies its Person. Thank you for making my point.

Identity is a HUGE problem. Thus the Persona.

Who you are or who I am is of no consequence to this argument of what about me allows others to know with a surety it is me tomorrow. There is nothing about me that identifies me tomorrow.

Names change so a name cannot identify a man. If I met you today martin earl and we scheduled a time to meet tomorrow what about you would allow me to know it is you that I have met? There is nothing about you that strictly speaking can identify you tomorrow.

You ask why in the heck is he pushing this...BECAUSE the State created persons are used to mend the Impossibility of Identifying a man. The Person is easily identifiable - SSN, DL, DOB, etc. And if you even look remotely like the picture on the DL well then that's good enough. So then what if my identity is stolen - ROFLMAO.....my identity can never be proven - only the Person.

I do not believe i ever entered the option of Law to establish the identity of a man. How absurd. Law has no bearing in regard to the Physical Eyes (five senses) and the Spiritual Eyes.

Whether or not someone trusts in you has no bearing on your identity. I could care less about the State; the State has nothing to do with the Physical or Spiritual Identity of a man.

For those who think they can identify themselves, I open the door and put forth the challenge. Whether or not you deem it important, I could care less. The argument is that you cannot identify yourself. I'll wait.....

I have not dodged the argument, should YOU harm me, say, break my arm in a fight, without a mask or disguise, or if I could hold you at the scene until others arrived, I could IDENTIFY you as the man who broke my arm.

That is called witness. I can point my finger at you, in court and say "that is the man who broke my arm". Now, that is not to say you are guilty of a crime, just simple witness. Other witnesses could put you at the fight, and with enough eye witnesses, you could be convicted of a crime.

No name, no Date of Birth no PERSON needed. That is the way the law is supposed to work. You and I agree that nothing physical can identify me. I for one do not believe DNA is any indicator of a BODY since, I cannot testify if the DNA came from me, therefore, I cannot say if or who it DID come from. Does DNA even exist? I have never seen DNA and cannot be a witness to it.

I do not have to accept any "expert" opinion on the matter of DNA either, that would be bearing false witness, against me or another.

I have stood in front of the STATE High Priests and demanded they IDENTIFY me (remember, I used to be a police officer for these same people) they did not even try to tie me to the STATE Person. Not even a peep from my own neighbors (I was standing next to a former Sgt. of mine from the police department, he did not utter a word).

In fact, not even my "parents" can testify to my date of birth, place of birth or true name, because, reportedly, I was at least 3 days old when they became my "parents". I know of no man or woman on this earth that can identify ME.

That means is up to my Creator, and/or ME. I can identify me, it I am self-evident. HOW I chose to identify me is up to me.

However, you and I are in agreement, nobody else has the power to identify me, nor can I prove who I am, I fail to see why I would need to.

The Master recognizes His own, and I will recognize the Master, I hope. I cannot testify to the Fact that my Master even exists, since I have not seen Him with my physical eyes, thus faith is those things hoped for but NOT seen.

Testimony is those things seen and known, witness is not proof, only witness, but the law states in the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses, the truth shall be established. That is the law for our physical realm.

I agree with you, no body can prove its own identity, that does not mean there is not a body.

[Michael Joseph]

Very good. Now that we agree it is impossible for one to prove identity we can go to numerous places in Yehovah's Word - I like this one in particular:

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Luk 11:53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:

Luk 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.


I will not argue that there are heuristics that a living soul may employ to "cut corners" in regard to identity; I have friends and I can listen to their speech patterns, they look approximately the same [maybe some weight fluctuations], they have approximately the same intellectual styles so I can feel pretty safe that my friend is who I think he is. But in reality i cannot know for certain so I must Trust my friend.

And the foregoing is an implied trust. The Society is not as forgiving when it comes to heuristic approximations; as such, "devices" are created that are not exactly true, they are fictions, yet, these devices require the Trust of a living soul in order to come into existence.

For instance, I went into a DMV office about three months back and asked the head clerk what would it take to get a State issued ID. His response to me was that I would need to show trust in the State, by way of a Driver's License, a Social Security Number, someone who is already Trusting in the State to "vouch" for me, perhaps a high-school picture, or proof of a Residential Address". I have none of those so I thanked him for his time and left.

Society Identifies the Person - not the living soul. The Living Soul shows his Trust by his words and his actions. Therefore the Persona belongs to State [societal trust]. See that a survey was taken on a child at birth and a person was created...just sitting there and waiting for a living soul to USE it.

The Living Soul has always been without the State.

Two trusts:

Jeremiah 17:5 - in man

Jeremiah 17:7 - in the Ever Living Self Existing One.

thank you for your testimony regarding your experiences. I just re-read your post.....Exactly! ONLY you are with the ability to say who you are. Why? Because there is NOTHING about you that I can use to identify you tomorrow - me too.

Thus the ancient saying my Word is my Bond. Why because I stand before the Ever Living - I lie not. Let Yehovah judge righteously between me and thee. But then one says, i know not your God. A choice is ever present for man to express his Trust. It is really quite simple.

The Truth is simple yes?

[David Merrill]

The simplest title I have on you is Michael Joseph; in natural law.

[by implication]

I am that, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, ... I am'