Presumed Dead

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  • allodial
    Senior Member
    • May 2011
    • 2866

    #1

    Presumed Dead

    Presumption of Death From Absence....

    The law becomes confused when an individual disappears for a long time and no other person knows where the absentee is, dead or alive.

    Until death has been confirmed, the law continues to deal with the absentee's property in absentia, governed only by any delegation of powers the absentee may have signed before disappearing, such as a power of attorney.

    It is a disagreeable state of affairs that the law cannot tolerate for long as without a directing mind, property, assets and things are rudderless and as such, start bumping into other ships nearby, such as the legal rights of a husband or wife, marital status, or the rights of property held jointly with the absentee, or the absentee's estate or an estate in which he might have an interest were his status ascertained in law

    And yet, before a more modern evolution of the common law, especially as with the advent of problem-solving by way of statute as opposed to the reliance on the common sense of judges (also known as common law), the common law entertained a legal presumption of life.

    In the 1800s, a line of cases in England suggested that a seven year absence might give rise to a presumption of death. These cases initially appear to have been intended to be specific to the facts at hand but as all sparks of legal precepts in the common law, the suggestion of a presumption of death after 7-year absence, was both attractive and novel.

    But whether it ever firmly rooted within the common law has been a controversy ever since.

    Halsbury's Laws of England proposes that "where no statute applies, the mere fact of absence for more than seven years does not raise a presumption that death has occurred".

    In Sheehy v Winch Estate:
    "The authorities touching presumptions referable to the continuance of life and presumption of death, are somewhat difficult to reconcile, but I am of opinion that the following principles of law are well established.
    There is no presumption of death before the expiration of seven years from the time the missing person was last heard of or seen.
    That subject to certain exceptions as to the likelihood of a missing person keeping his identity unrevealed, there is a presumption of death after a lapse of seven years.
    That there is no presumption within such seven year period respecting the time the death took place.
    That if any one claims, or bases a right upon death having taken place within a specific time within the seven years, the onus of proof lies on such person.
    "In a word, ... the onus is on the party who attempts to change the status quo; the one on whom the onus rests must prove that the previously existing condition has changed, subject always to the presumption that arises after an absence, under certain conditions, for a period of not less than seven years."
    But, conversely, Canadian author Richard Young, in Estate Practice refers to the "seven year rule".

    Referring to Lal Chand Marwari v. Mahant Ramrup Gir, in Middlemiss v Middlemiss, the British Columbia Court of Appeal stated that:

    "If a person has not been heard of for not less than seven years there is a presumption of law that he is dead."
    Or, borrowing from Re Phene's Trust 1871 Chancery 356, the Ontario Court in Darling v. Sun Life Assurance Company of Canada:

    If a person has not been heard of for seven years, there is a presumption of law that he is dead; but at what time within that period he died is not a matter of presumption but of evidence, and the onus of proving that the death took place at any particular time within the seven years lies upon the person who claims a right, to the establishment of which that fact is essential.
    Statute law has since intervened.

    An early foray into presumption of death statute was the Cestui Que Vie Act of 1666 which allowed a litigant to invoke a presumption of death in regards to life estates where a beneficiary:

    "... shall remaine beyond the seas or elsewhere absent themselves in this Realme by the space of seaven yeares together and noe sufficient and evident proofe be made of the lives of such person or persons ... in every such case the person or persons upon whose life or lives such estate depended shall be accounted as naturally dead, and in every action ... the judges before whom such action shall be brought shall direct the jury to give their verdict as if the person soe remaining beyond the seas or otherwise absenting himselfe were dead."
    While legal researchers argue over whether or not such a presumption ever properly grounded itself in the common law, it is mostly a moot point as common law jurisdictions have continued to rely on statutes to either provide a presumption of death after an absence of a set period of time, generally seven years, or earlier where evidence exists to demonstrate that a person is dead, based on a balance of probability.

    Death is just another fact that needs to be proven and like any alleged fact, where relevant, persuasive and not contradicted, that evidence will persuade a Court.

    For example, for those persons known to have been on the Titanic and who were never heard from or seen again, or their remains found, there would have been no need to wait seven years. The same applies for airline disasters, lost at sea or other similar incidents which because of the circumstances, would lead inextricably to a presumption of death.

    In Re Honeyman:

    "John Robertson Honeyman, a commercial traveller, had left Vancouver on a regular business trip to Prince Rupert on April 8, 1929. On April 19, 1929, (his wife) received a wire from him from Prince Rupert in which he stated he was returning to Vancouver as he was not feeling in good health; that she had been advised that when her husband boarded the SS. "Princess Royal" at Prince Rupert on April 19, 1929, he was in poor health; that he occupied cabin No. 18, which was an outside cabin, and that during the time he was on the said steamship he refused to eat any but one meal; that about 2 a.m. on April 22, 1929, her husband complained to James Reid, night saloonman on said steamship, that a man and woman were shining a light on him and he was not going to stand for it and that about 5 a.m. on the same date he came to the saloon and appeared to be very sick and stated to said Reid that he was unable to sleep ...; that her husband returned to his stateroom shortly after and was never again seen; that his stateroom was entered at Vancouver and the door was found to be locked with the key in the keyhole on the inside and a note: "Good Bye. God Bless You All For I know not what I do. JOHN"

    (More)
    Last edited by allodial; 09-13-11, 04:57 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.
  • Freed Gerdes
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2012
    • 133

    #2
    An early foray into presumption of death statute was the Cestui Que Vie Act of 1666 which allowed a litigant to invoke a presumption of death in regards to life estates where a beneficiary: ...
    I have a couple of questions about the Cestui Que Vie Act of 1666: that Act (translated - "that killed this life") starts with the presumption that the natural person is dead, and sets up a trust to control all the person's assets (including the future value of the (dead?) person's labor), and makes the state the trustee. It would seem that the Social Security Trust, using the SS#, is such a CQVT. Being a legal fiction, it is subject to (controlled by) the corporate entity that created it, ie, the state. So when you stand up in court and say 'yes, your honor, that's me', you have just become property of your estate, and have just entered into voluntary servitude, giving up all your inalienable rights. So I can see how the CQVT would be popular with the state, as it eliminates all those sticky issues about inalienable rights.
    So, first, is the SS trust such a CQVT? Is it based on the 1666 law, or has the US changed/added to that initial bit of shyster lawyering? The 1666 law had a section which allowed the 'presumed dead' person to make an appearance (presumably in the court, since it was agent for the trustee) to prove they weren't dead, at which point all the trust assets would revert to the natural person, even if the trust had been probated. Does such a right attach to the current version of the US trust? Would there be any value in appearing (where?) and claiming the reversion, ie, becoming the trustee of your own trust? Has anyone done this? Just asking, for now.

    Comment

    • David Merrill
      Administrator
      • Mar 2011
      • 5950

      #3
      Originally posted by Freed Gerdes View Post
      An early foray into presumption of death statute was the Cestui Que Vie Act of 1666 which allowed a litigant to invoke a presumption of death in regards to life estates where a beneficiary: ...
      I have a couple of questions about the Cestui Que Vie Act of 1666: that Act (translated - "that killed this life") starts with the presumption that the natural person is dead, and sets up a trust to control all the person's assets (including the future value of the (dead?) person's labor), and makes the state the trustee. It would seem that the Social Security Trust, using the SS#, is such a CQVT. Being a legal fiction, it is subject to (controlled by) the corporate entity that created it, ie, the state. So when you stand up in court and say 'yes, your honor, that's me', you have just become property of your estate, and have just entered into voluntary servitude, giving up all your inalienable rights. So I can see how the CQVT would be popular with the state, as it eliminates all those sticky issues about inalienable rights.
      So, first, is the SS trust such a CQVT? Is it based on the 1666 law, or has the US changed/added to that initial bit of shyster lawyering? The 1666 law had a section which allowed the 'presumed dead' person to make an appearance (presumably in the court, since it was agent for the trustee) to prove they weren't dead, at which point all the trust assets would revert to the natural person, even if the trust had been probated. Does such a right attach to the current version of the US trust? Would there be any value in appearing (where?) and claiming the reversion, ie, becoming the trustee of your own trust? Has anyone done this? Just asking, for now.
      What a delightful inquiry!

      There are suitors posting who would love to do a point-by-point I hope. Since I had formed an interpretation before the brain trust explored cestui que vie laws and traditions, I will address your post from that perception.

      I think of the ALL UPPER CASE name as an encryption. To en-crypt is to bury in a crypt, which is in coherence with death or making dead. To engage in false balances (endorsement of elastic currency from the Fed) is an act worthy of biblical death. Even the Talmud interprets the man who insisted on collecting firewood on the sabbath was not literally killed. He was considered dead to the people. He was likely banished from the camp or put on some kind of probation. There is a term called outlawry. When one is in outlawry another term follows - caput lupinum - having the head of a wolf. Following that is a mellowing of the harshness - civil death.

      Another expression of civil encryption is found through belligerence - nom de guerre. Supposing that you are not protecting your home in self defense, but you are drafted by a belligerent community? According to the Metaphysics of St. Thomas Aquinas you are justified if you create a MATHEMATICAL PERSON to do the fighting, a name of war.







      All of this is in coherence with cestui que vie traditions. I learned about it from GRAVESTONES too.


      Look at footnote 22.

      [22] Article Eighteen of the agreement states:


      The Revocable Inter-Vivos Trust shall be referred to as the PENDER FAMILY LIVING TRUST. Other trusts created herein may be known by other names as provided in the ARTICLES and Sections creating them.
      (Appellants' Appendix at 81) (capitalization in the original). Other trusts which are either created or otherwise contemplated by the Trust Document include: the PENDER SPECIAL TRUST (Id. at 42[capitalization in original]); DECEDENT'S TRUST (Id. at 44 [capitalization in original]); SURVIVOR'S TRUST (Id. [capitalization in original]); PENDER VEHICLE TRUST (Id. at 45 [capitalization in original]); and PENDER TRUST (Id. at 81 [capitalization in original]). Each time the above trusts are referenced in the Trust Document, they are printed in all capital letters. At no place in the agreement are the alleged trusts named "Separate Trust Estate of Josie Pender," "Josie's Separate Trust Estate," or "Josie's Trust Estate" identified by name, much less capitalized as all of the expressly created trusts are.
      Last edited by David Merrill; 06-07-12, 03:14 PM.
      www.lawfulmoneytrust.com
      www.bishopcastle.us
      www.bishopcastle.mobi

      Comment

      • allodial
        Senior Member
        • May 2011
        • 2866

        #4
        Some languages seem to be tied to a kind of manipulation and some cultures that have histories built upon idol worship seem to be particular prone. Consider the word 'nombre'. More interestingly, is how it relates moreso to the concepts of 'constructive trust' or 'resulting trust'.
        All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

        "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
        "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
        Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

        Comment

        • Neo1
          Junior Member
          • Apr 2012
          • 6

          #5
          Neo1

          I found this site. Has anyone completed this and sent in the documents?

          Comment

          • allodial
            Senior Member
            • May 2011
            • 2866

            #6
            Originally posted by Neo1 View Post
            I found this site. Has anyone completed this and sent in the documents?
            http://notice-recipient.com/
            I would avoid or tread very carefully and/or prayerfully.
            Last edited by allodial; 06-10-12, 08:09 PM.
            All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

            "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
            "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
            Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

            Comment

            • David Merrill
              Administrator
              • Mar 2011
              • 5950

              #7
              Originally posted by Neo1 View Post
              I found this site. Has anyone completed this and sent in the documents?
              http://notice-recipient.com/

              I saw a comment by a Michael-Joseph on a recent thread. Is that Michael Joseph here?

              That blog though, it has a lot of promises that something big will happen very soon! That strikes me familiar because of some RAP/RuSA tones. I do not have enough to go on though.

              Be Careful.
              www.lawfulmoneytrust.com
              www.bishopcastle.us
              www.bishopcastle.mobi

              Comment

              • allodial
                Senior Member
                • May 2011
                • 2866

                #8
                I was perusing a couple State's statutes on guardianship, probate..etc. and came across the "Uniform Simultaneous Death Act" code.

                The Uniform Simultaneous Death Act is a uniform act enacted in some U.S. states to alleviate the problem of simultaneous death in determining inheritance.

                The Act specifies that, if two or more people die within 120 hours of one another, and no will or other document provides for this situation explicitly, each is considered to have predeceased the others. However, the Act contains a clause that states if the end result would be an intestate estate escheating to the state, the 120-hour rule is not to be applied.

                The Act was promulgated in 1940 {right before the US got involved in the World War II and two years before the Declarations by United Nations}, when it was adopted by all 48 then-existing states. It was last amended in 1993. As of 2010, 19 states (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, and Wisconsin) and the District of Columbia have explicitly adopted the Act in its current version. A number of other states have indirectly adopted the Act as part of the Uniform Probate Code.
                The Virgin Islands adopted the Act in 2010.
                Mississippi Code has the typical:

                This chapter shall not apply in the case of wills, living trusts, deeds, contracts of insurance or other contracts wherein provision has been made for distribution of property different from the provisions of this chapter.
                Interesting that such a set of code would be adopted only moments before a very huge war no? What if a society going into debt would be a kind of 'simultaneous death'?

                Click image for larger version

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                Last edited by allodial; 06-11-12, 11:01 PM.
                All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

                "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
                "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
                Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

                Comment

                • David Merrill
                  Administrator
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 5950

                  #9
                  Thank you for the graph!

                  Debt = Death. Of course.

                  If somebody was to offer you debt, for a price what should be the first question on your mind?

                  How much longer will everybody be thinking of debt as money?


                  [How much time do I have to sell this debt to another 'sucker'?]
                  www.lawfulmoneytrust.com
                  www.bishopcastle.us
                  www.bishopcastle.mobi

                  Comment

                  • Treefarmer
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 473

                    #10
                    Originally posted by allodial View Post
                    I was perusing a couple State's statutes on guardianship, probate..etc. and came across the "Uniform Simultaneous Death Act" code.

                    ......
                    The Act was promulgated in 1940 {right before the US got involved in the Civil War and two years before the Declarations by United Nations}, when it was adopted by all 48 then-existing states.
                    ......
                    Huh?
                    Was that supposed to say World War 2, not Civil War, or am I missing something here?
                    Treefarmer

                    There is power in the blood of Jesus

                    Comment

                    • allodial
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 2866

                      #11
                      A Joint Declaration by the United States, the United Kingdom, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, China, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Costa Rica, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, India, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Poland, South Africa, Yugoslavia
                      ....

                      Having subscribed to a common program of purposes and principles embodied in the Joint Declaration of the President of the United States of America and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland dated August 14, 1941, known as the Atlantic Charter.

                      Being convinced that complete victory over their enemies is essential to defend life, liberty, independence and religious freedom, and to preserve human rights and justice in their own lands as well as in other lands, and that they are now engaged in a common struggle against savage and brutal forces seeking to subjugate the world,

                      DECLARE:

                      (1) Each Government pledges itself to employ its full resources, military or economic, against those members of the Tripartite Pact :and its adherents with which such government is at war.

                      (2) Each Government pledges itself to cooperate with the Governments signatory hereto and not to make a separate armistice or peace with the enemies.
                      Human resources?
                      All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

                      "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
                      "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
                      Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

                      Comment

                      • Michael Joseph
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 1596

                        #12
                        Originally posted by David Merrill View Post
                        I saw a comment by a Michael-Joseph on a recent thread. Is that Michael Joseph here?

                        That blog though, it has a lot of promises that something big will happen very soon! That strikes me familiar because of some RAP/RuSA tones. I do not have enough to go on though.

                        Be Careful.
                        I do not post on that site. Someone recently sent me an email telling me they saw my writings on this site. but they are not my issue.

                        Shalom,
                        MJ
                        The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

                        Lawful Money Trust Website

                        Divine Mind Community Call - Sundays 8pm EST

                        ONE man or woman can make a difference!

                        Comment

                        • David Merrill
                          Administrator
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 5950

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post
                          I do not post on that site. Someone recently sent me an email telling me they saw my writings on this site. but they are not my issue.

                          Shalom,
                          MJ

                          Thank you MJ;


                          I guess it's a big world out there - cyberspace!
                          www.lawfulmoneytrust.com
                          www.bishopcastle.us
                          www.bishopcastle.mobi

                          Comment

                          • outlierquest
                            Junior Member
                            • Apr 2012
                            • 18

                            #14
                            Here's my take on the presumption of death in the relationship to the alleged Cestui Que Vie trust. Your thoughts will be appreciated. Peace, Phillip Michael
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                            • Michael Joseph
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 1596

                              #15
                              Originally posted by outlierquest View Post
                              Here's my take on the presumption of death in the relationship to the alleged Cestui Que Vie trust. Your thoughts will be appreciated. Peace, Phillip Michael
                              Phillip Michael,

                              I base my whole existence in the Scripture. Therefore I will answer you from Scripture.

                              Chavvah [Eve] was NOT the first woman. She however was the woman made from The Man [eth-ha-aw-dawm] - the English is LAZY as it recognizes The Man as Adam which is really Aw-Dawm [to show blood in the face]. Now there is ONLY one race that can show blood in the face and that is ruddy complected. If you think me a racist then you have not studied the Word for Elohim [Family] Created and said it is VERY GOOD. Each is called to duty in the Earth but few recognize the calling if they hear it at all.

                              But I digress. Chavvah is the mother of All Living BECAUSE thru her DNA [she and The Man], their VINEYARD, comes forth Yehoshuah - Yehovah Saves. Did you get that? That DNA was PURE and undefiled from Yehoshuah all the way to The MAN. And The MAN was son of God. Therefore you are either DEAD in the World, surrounded by Thorns, or you are Alive in Yehoshuah.

                              It is a Choice, that ONLY you can make for you. For man IS NOT immortal, neither is his soul - but the spirit is. therefore man became a living soul - MORTAL TO DIE.

                              Yehoshuah gave men who are BEGOTTEN in the Spirit but not yet BORN a power of attorney. Now I know that former statement is a bit confusing so I will elaborate.

                              A mother holds an egg within her and in it holds life. But life cannot be imparted unless The Man issues forth his sperm. When the egg and the sperm unite there is a Begetting of Life, but the Life is not yet BORN. The Child remains within mother for 40 weeks.

                              When a man or woman receives Salvation in Yehoshuah, they are BEGOTTEN children IN the Spirit, but they are not yet BORN as Yehoshuah has yet to return. Therefore we LIVE AND MOVE AND HAVE OUR BEING IN HIM [YEHOSHUAH]. Now it is the woman, thru her waters, that is ONE rerequisite to Salvation - the Nephilim are excluded - they did not come thru waters of a woman - but the OTHER requisite for Salvation, is Repentance, which is a way of saying that you are actively conforming to the Character of the Family of GOD.

                              Now it is the Holy Spirit that Begets children. For do you not know that Yehoshuah was begotten in the flesh by a Flesh woman [waters of a woman] and in the Spirit by the Holy Spirit of GOD. Therefore in the analogy, we are the woman, and the Holy Spirit is the Man - begetting Life - but we hold Life within us IN CHOICE.

                              Therefore absent Yehoshuah you are dead - Dry Bones.

                              Eze 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of Yehovah and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

                              Eze 37:2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

                              Eze 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Yehovah ELOHIM, thou knowest.

                              Eze 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of Yehovah.

                              Do you not see that the plan of the family ELOHIM is to produce progeny - begotten of the Holy Spirit. But I look to another time, now in the Earth we are witnesses to the Glory of ELOHIM [family of GOD].


                              Will you keep your vineyard, clear of throns, or will you allow Jezebel to transfer your vineyard to Satan [Ahab]? That would be Jezebel daughter of eth Baal = emphatically THE BAAL. - The Great Whore - a United Church - as Agent of Satan - come to our Church [state] whatever.


                              She is Royalty - has it made in the shade... don't you want what she has, I HOPE NOT.

                              Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

                              Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

                              Shalom,
                              Michael Joseph
                              The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

                              Lawful Money Trust Website

                              Divine Mind Community Call - Sundays 8pm EST

                              ONE man or woman can make a difference!

                              Comment

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