US Notes are redeemable

[Freed Gerdes]

Seems to me the lawyers are just trying to muddy the water and confuse the sheeple about the difference between money and debt. Lawful money is/was issued by the US Treasury, and is/must be backed by silver or gold (real money per the Constitution). Such lawful money is obviously not elastic, ie cannot be increased without a concommitant increase in the real money backing it. The private notes of the Federal Reserve are not money; they are debt notes, being someone else's obligation to pay. Since debt cannot discharge debt, this fake money lacks some important characteristics of money, the key one being that it cannot be used to actually pay for anything. This is identified as the primary benefit of agreeing to be a ward of the corporate state: all 'US citizens' (14th Amendment debt slaves) are allowed to 'pay' all their obligations in this fake money, which the state promises to print as much as needed, since it costs them nothing to print more. This is a naked plea by the state to get the citizens to join them in perpetrating this fraud on the rest of the world. "We are bankrupt, and intend to stiff all our creditors at some future point; won't you join us in perpetrating this fraud? Then you can enjoy being bankrupt too." But false balances are an abomination to the Lord, so the state is asking you to forsake the Lord and put your trust in a gang of criminals. Not a good choice.

The lawyers would like to completely obscure the difference between lawful money and private debt, because the use of lawful money is foreign to the state, and it prevents the state from making a claim to tax the assets purchased with lawful money. By using their false money you establish their claim. In God's usufruct, living man has the rights to life, liberty, and the enjoyment of the fruits of his labor. The Constitution recognizes these God-given rights, and the Supreme Court has also, by striking down the income tax in 1895. Your labor is available for your beneficial use; the state does not have a claim on the fruits of your labor, unless you agree to give them one, by using their false money. The Constitution established a trust over the land mass of the Union States; that trust is inside God's trust, and so must, and does, conform to the higher laws already established. The United States of America Corporation, a corporation chartered under the Constitution, must also conform to those higher laws. Thus income tax is voluntary; taxes on your property are voluntary. And since you have dual citizenship, both an American Citizen, and a US citizen, and since citizenship is a First Amendment right, you can choose which trust to live under. If you choose God's usufruct, you have a duty as a trustee to keep God's laws, and you enjoy the benefits of His kingdom. If you choose to live under the corporation's trust, 'you' become legally an animal (Title 7 USC Chp 6), and your corporate 'person' (YOUR LEGAL NAME) has only the right to naked use of the fruits of your labor, and you have given the state the right to tax your income and all of your assets (since you bought them with corporate debt notes). You have to understand how the scam is constructed before you can take positive steps to extricate yourself from it...

Freed

[JohnnyCash]

Great post MJ! These quatloser jokers, chameleons ... they're everywhere it seems and we all know why. Looking forward to grand opening on Monday.

[Keith Alan]

@ Freed

"Seems to me the lawyers are just trying to muddy the water and confuse the sheeple about the difference between money and debt."

Very true, but have you considered that lawful money - as it is loosely defined by most on this site - is also credit? It's just that lawful money and legal tender tokens carry different features, attributes, and obligations.

That is why FRN is lawful money, in the sense that if someone accepts the token, then it is a lawful transaction. If someone rejects those features, attributes, and obligations inherent in the token, and demands instead the token provided in 12 USC 411, then he's accepting another species of credit (called here, "lawful money" and thought of as something akin to US notes).

At any rate, whether one receives FRN or US notes, both species reside either on paper or in book keeping entries, and most curiously both reside in the same instruments, either paper or book keeping entries.

Now all of this begs the question: What differentiates money from credit? The answer is surprising - there is no difference, other than the features, attributes, and obligations of the tokens being used in the accounting for capital, goods, and services in an economy; and again, both species can reside in the same tokens.

Even gold and silver coin are credit, in the sense the original producer of the coin granted his capital, goods, and services to whomever holds the coin. But it just so happens that some people regard this species of credit token as lawful money. Others regard it as a mere commodity, its value measured according to various standards.

To sum up, all money is credit, and consists of either physical or intangible tokens; these tokens having either intrinsic value or not; the tokens carry with them certain attributes, features, and obligations, determined by the original issuer; in the case of the FRN token (whether on paper or in a book entry) the holder has the option - granted through 12 USC 411 - to invoke the "lawful money" features, attributes, and obligations.

[Moxie]

Sooo...if the left side of a FRN is Federal Reserve, and the right side is Treasury, how about for pennies, nickels, dimes etc.?

[Michael Joseph]

Sooo...if the left side of a FRN is Federal Reserve, and the right side is Treasury, how about for pennies, nickels, dimes etc.?

In my understanding:

coins are lawful money. this is why you get an automatic 1k deduction - or you used to be able to get that - I do not claim anymore deductions as it is not necessary.

Also regarding lawful money - IF you make your CLAIM or DEMAND, then you have fulfilled the Law! What is given back to you matters not - BECAUSE this comports with 31USC5115 - read the footnotes [revisions].

Shalom,
Michael Joseph

[Michael Joseph]

Sooo...if the left side of a FRN is Federal Reserve, and the right side is Treasury, how about for pennies, nickels, dimes etc.?

In my understanding:

coins are lawful money. this is why you get an automatic 1k deduction - or you used to be able to get that - I do not claim anymore deductions as it is not necessary.

Also regarding lawful money - IF you make your CLAIM or DEMAND, then you have fulfilled the Law! What is given back to you matters not - BECAUSE this comports with 31USC5115 - read the footnotes [revisions].

Shalom,
Michael Joseph

[David Neil]

No were on a US Treasury coin is the word "note". It is not issued as debt. It is not the property of the Federal Reserve. Just like US Treasury Notes, coins cannot be used as bank reserves, just like US Treasury Notes they are not elastic.

My understanding is, just like US Treasury Notes, they are not subject to the Federal Income Tax since you are note using the private property of the Federal Reserve subject to excise.
I have heard but cannot verify that the source of the Personal Deduction in Federal Income tax is a generalized way that the IRS reconciles that we use coins and they have no taxing authority. (Can someone confirm? IRS documentation?)

To align with the momentum that this thread has taken, Treasury Coins are also fiat and they are not backed by substance (though I believe that nickels are being hoarded because their metal content is worth more than their denominated value) and what does that mean with regards to the being a token of credit from the Treasury.

I understand that like Redeemed Currency, with coins we are not endorsing private credit, we are not subject to tax or Hypothecation in their use, how do we reconcile just weights and measure on all these forms of money that are substantiated by fiat only?

[Keith Alan]

US coin must be lawful money, since FRN can be redeemed by coin, dollar for dollar. But that can be inconvenient.

Also, since Eagles are denominated legal tender, then they, too, serve the dual function of lawful money and legal tender.

What I'm getting at, is all the currency in general circulation serves two functions, depending on the manner in which they are accepted.

It's the acceptance that matters. At least, that's how it is in my mind.

[Anthony Joseph]

the point is that 'money' is whatever two people agree 'money' is by a meeting of the minds

if i paint a man's fence and said man hands me eggs, fruit and vegetables as per our prior agreement in exchange for my labor, then said eggs, fruit and vegetables is 'money' simply because we both agree these things are valuable

the other point is that we wish to avoid any liability by exchanging with paper currency

i believe i have a right to conduct my affairs without the scope of the Federal Reserve bank and districts; do you believe otherwise?
i believe i have a right to conduct my affairs upon the proper balances, and just weights and measures, of non-reserve, non-elastic public 'money' [cf. redeemed lawful money; see 12USC411]; do you believe otherwise?

who makes the claim i owe debt?
who will verify said debt is true?
who will verify said debt is [post] due?

upon verifiable proof of claim, under oath or affirmation, i am ready to settle any true debt i owe
who will now step forward, point to i; a man, and verify said claim of debt is true so i may settle the matter?

anyone?
anyone?

crickets


seems as though no controversy exists; have a blessed day, thank you and i will be on my way

[walter]

There are big differences between coins and paper notes.

Coins have no signature where as paper notes do.
Coins are only legal tender up to certain domination's.
After the allowed limit its not legal tender anymore. Is this why the tax man doesn't care to much about coins?



As outlined in the Currency Act, there is a limit to the value of a transaction for which you can use only coins.[10] A payment in coins is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:

forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;
twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;
ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;
five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and
twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent.

In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, a payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination.

[walter]

the point is that 'money' is whatever two people agree 'money' is by a meeting of the minds

if i paint a man's fence and said man hands me eggs, fruit and vegetables as per our prior agreement in exchange for my labor, then said eggs, fruit and vegetables is 'money' simply because we both agree these things are valuable

I would have to disagree here.
Money is a craft of a satanic spell. Apples and eggs don't fall into that category.
Apples and eggs can reproduce life, money can't do anything.

money
mon-ey
mono-eye
single-eye

i am going to keep my eye on you.

[Anthony Joseph]

I would have to disagree here.
Money is a craft of a satanic spell. Apples and eggs don't fall into that category.
Apples and eggs can reproduce life, money can't do anything.

money
mon-ey
mono-eye
single-eye

i am going to keep my eye on you.

if you believe a piece of paper (2nd dimension) has that much power over man (3rd dimension), who am i to convince you otherwise

[Michael Joseph]

if you believe a piece of paper (2nd dimension) has that much power over man (3rd dimension), who am i to convince you otherwise

The argument is centered in VALUE. Is money valuable? Well that depends on the one receiving Value, yes? Therefore to adopt a Money is to place a TRUST in its operations. For why would I accept paper if I did not perceive it to be valuable?

So where does money come from? PROMISES OF MAN. MY WORD IS MY BOND.

Therefore YOUR NAME SIR, MAY I HAVE YOUR NAME. Sign here and here and here.....ad finitum.

I don't care if you give me electrons on account - IF I MAKE MY DEMAND FOR LAWFUL MONEY - then I have fulfilled the Law- the rest comports with United States Currency Notes. The burden is upon me to fulfill the Law.

"The rules of the road have been LODGED
its only peoples games you have to DODGE"--- Bob Dylan

Shalom,
Michael Joseph

[Keith Alan]

[Michael Joseph]

I love it. God requires true balances. The Body is the Word or Bread of LIFE - man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceedeth from the mouth of God! Every Word is THE WORD. A double edged Sword!

The Blood = the Sacrifice for the New Threshold Covenant! In those days I shall write my LAWS upon their Hearts! Circumcision of the Heart. The renewing of the in-ward man!

And God will come and Sup with you - celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles and you will become a NEW MAN - eighth day re-creation!

Simply put - I am redeemed in Yehoshuah [Jesus]! There is no name greater in Heaven or in the Earth! The anointed or chosen of God - Christos.

The Sign upon the New Covenant is Communion, the Seal is the Holy Spirit. Just as the Sign in the old Covenant was Circumcision and the Seal was Sabbath.

We are commanded to have true balances! That is EQUITY.

Shalom,
Michael Joseph