Remedy - lawful money solution

[walter]

Uploaded on Dec 14, 2010

Martha A. Crocker

judge Crocker New Hampshire CQV Cestui Que Vie Trust

A beneficiary can't collapse a trust. No standing to do so.

[Chex]

http://wizardforums.com/Thread-Colla...this-like-firehttp://www.justice-law.com/Articles/grantor-trusts/

Now this is by far the best way of putting things that I read since David pointed out 12USC411,

The county attorney upon looking at our deed asked concerning 12USC411 - he said we can't pay you cash - I just laughed realizing that he knew what we were up to - I said we have fulfilled the law [ever hear that one in church] by making our demand - what you give us is of little concern. We will slap a demand on that too.

Thank you MJ for that.

[itsmymoney]

I removed post because there wasn't a response to my questions and figured that I had most information I needed to proceed. I concluded that FRNs are FRNs regardless as there is no distinction between it, its printed by the FED, its source issuing authority is corrupt, is already in circulation, you cant change its nature, the deed is done. I want nothing to do with FRNs. Coin is considered lawful money, and the process i'm using to redeem is taking all cash and converting it to coin. In so doing I am redeeming for non-debt currency as coin, it has no association with the FED and is of the US Treasury. The banks can keep their FRN notes and I only do business in coin. Thus putting coin in circulation, creating a "demand", and not supporting FRN currency period. The FED has to purchase coin at face value from the treasury and is obligated to put it into circulation. Thus generating revenue for US Treasury and reversing debt incurred from the FED.

Touche to you, sir or madam! It would appear your method is the 'ultimate demand' in lawful money. However, suitors have been breaking free of the FRS perils come April-time via refunds against said FRN's. No private endorsement, no further obligation. Granted, nothing is foolproof when it comes to these 'people' but this is the best we can do with what is presented. Until 'they' start pushing back, redeeming in virtual U.S. Notes appears to be doing what it is intended to do - deal with the Treasury only, by law.

Regardless, I applaud your method of redeeming lawful money in coinage.

[NONOFED]

However, suitors have been breaking free of the FRS perils come April-time via refunds against said FRN's.

How? Have you?

[itsmymoney]

How? Have you?

Look at all the testimonials on this site, and the methods used therein. Check/deposit-slip novation, public record of your demand. I thought you had already acknowledged this?

[shikamaru]

Could lawful money on one side with private credit on the other be titled, "The Two Ledgers" or "The Two Books" doctrine?

[NONOFED]

[NONOFED]

The liability of the maker of a promissory note is primary and absolute.
Banks stored your gold and gave you a slip, there were many slips, not enough gold, and bank runs.
There used to be Gold coins, there is no gold coins, since the banks stole it, and your silver, you now get coins containing mostly copper.
Since that is now the case, take your FRN notes to the bank and see how many coins you can get before the bank runs out of "coins". I bet a bank run.
There used to be the law of redemption on the notes but no longer yet is still law.
purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?

Its like a mining operation, slaves do the work unknowingly; you bring it gold, then silver, then copper. then eventually your are no longer needed. Wicked.

[shikamaru]

FRNs are promissory notes to pay you in US COINs.

Denomination differs from redemption, obligation, or warranty.
FRNs can be denominated in US coin.

Do note in the word promissory is the word promise.
A promissory note is a promise.

The parties can be the promisor and promissee.

[Brian]

"So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?" EXACTLY!

This is the basis for the 1st income tax of 3 now in effect. The other two being the Corporate income tax and the 16th amendment income tax.

Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 533 (1869)
"It cannot be doubted that under the Constitution the power to provide a circulation of coin is given to Congress. And it is settled by the uniform practice of the government and by repeated decisions, that Congress may constitutionally authorize the emission of bills of credit. ... Having thus, in the exercise of undisputed constitutional powers, undertaken to provide a currency for the whole country, it cannot be questioned that Congress may, constitutionally, secure the benefit of it to the people by appropriate legislation. To this end, Congress has denied the quality of legal tender to foreign coins, and has provided by law against the imposition of counterfeit and base coin on the community. To the same end, Congress may restrain (TAX), by suitable enactments, the circulation as money of any notes not issued under its own authority. Without this power, indeed, its attempts to secure a sound and uniform currency for the country must be futile."

The "Springer" income tax finds its authority from the Veazie case. Part of the Springer case came back as "Pollock" which then was sealed off by the 16th amendment. "Springer" was a two part case. Part of it was fine initially. The part dealing with what the Veazie Bank case settled. The other part dealing with income severed (derived) from any property (any source whatever) (think "rent seeking") was decided by "Pollock" and then reversed by the 16th amendment.

The Corporate income tax is on doing business in a via the incorporation privilege.

The primary income tax (Springer) on money not issued directly by congress also has "special" income taxes added onto it. Those add on taxes are Social Security, Medicare, and now Obamacare. These all hinge on the use of money substitutes not directly issued by congress. Hence they can be regulated (taxed) by congress. This is how they gain access to our lives and micromanage it by forcing us to buy shit we don't want (healthcare)......next up will be the affordable housing act or the affordable food act....etc..etc...

[itsmymoney]

[ATTACH]2282[/ATTACH]
The liability of the maker of a promissory note is primary and absolute.
Banks stored your gold and gave you a slip, there were many slips, not enough gold, and bank runs.
There used to be Gold coins, there is no gold coins, since the banks stole it, and your silver, you now get coins containing mostly copper.
Since that is now the case, take your FRN notes to the bank and see how many coins you can get before the bank runs out of "coins". I bet a bank run.
There used to be the law of redemption on the notes but no longer yet is still law.
[ATTACH]2281[/ATTACH]purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?

Its like a mining operation, slaves do the work unknowingly; you bring it gold, then silver, then copper. then eventually your are no longer needed. Wicked.

So if you disagree with the current non-coinage methods that have been successful here (receiving partial or full refunds based on those methods), then you are implying that the IRS is ignoring these methods at the moment, but could very well pull a 'Pete Hendrickson' mandate to come down on these filings at some future time. As I have said in the past, it would not surprise me if that ever occurred. However, if that were true, I would think it would have started to occur already (IRS/Treasury push-back). Otherwise maybe the volume of RILM is so low that it is not a concern to them at this time. But again, why wouldn't they start hammering these filings regardless? If there is money to steal then they surely will do so. It is a bit of a mystery at this point. Perhaps the current methods are acceptable to the IRS in the overall intent and true spirit of "lawful money", as we know it to be intended (U.S. Notes/coinage).

Something else to ponder relative to your notation, "Look familiar..." i.e. the pseduo-USC-411-language you reference on the actual bill ("THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER...AND IS REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY OR AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK")...

So the note is legal tender and not 'money' until redeemed. Thus we are given a choice according to that note's language, no?

"REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY" ...

"AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY" (their/your 'money' - no further obligation on the redemption directly from the Treasury)

OR

"AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK" (their 'money' - an obligation on the person redeeming their instrument of private credit; to
pay a 'fee' ('income' tax) for the privilege of using their 'money' via that instrument and thru the Treasury as 'middle man').

So yes, you have an argument/point that "lawful money" could be interpreted as 'FRS money', but we DO have a choice in how we redeem (see above). So far, it appears that the IRS/Treasury are honoring our check/deposit-slip redemption language relative to choice number one above (directly/solely with/from the Treasury). Why would one need to be specific about stating the 12 USC 411 redemption language on the instruments? BECAUSE the default redemption choice is thru the FRS, the notes bearing their stated instrument (FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE) at the top of the bill. Thus, it is the OTHER choice we are making with that specific language ("AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY"). If the law was written to mean redeeming your pay literally "AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY" in D.C, then perhaps we should all open accounts at the Treasury if that is even possible. However, I highly doubt that a restriction so severe was the intent when the law was written, to avoid using FRS money.

This is how I am seeing it. Just my observations.

P.S. addendum: this discussion is why I am contemplating using language such as: "Lawful money demanded solely with the U.S. Treasury per 12 USC 411 & full discharge demanded for all transactions per 95a(2)". I'm not sure I can be more specific as to the entity-choices designated in the USC 411 language (corresponding to the choices on the FRN's themselves) without adding "do not endorse private credit of the FRS".

[allodial]

The principles of law and equity underlying the non-taxability with respect to non-endorsement are sound across the spectrum. The principles underlying taxation in most every 'country' in the 'world' is that trees/capital goes untaxed...fruit is taxed. Principal => untaxed. Interest -> taxed.

On a related note: when you draw a check on a bank, its the fact that they accept the check that causes you to owe them ==that is why===> they take money out of your account. The idea of the check being a charge to your private account is misleading, the check is a charge on the bank the drawer (customer) makes --when they honor the check the drawer is indebted to the bank which in turns taps the drawer's account to balance things out. That is why it would be possible to overdraw an account. The honoring of the check isn't against the account but against the bank. The bank charges your account to satisfy your obligation to the bank.

On 'personal checks', the bank's logo tends to be in the 'drawee' position. But on payroll checks, things might be a bit different.

Related:
Re: Notes of Debt Are Not Income
Notes of Debt Are Not Income

[Chex]

I haven't looked into this IRS return thing, or rather, haven't found good standing for it yet, though if it has merit I would like to integrate it with coin, personally.

Start here to integrate coins.

Coins
The Board's role in coin operations is more limited
than its role in cash operations,
as the United States Mint is the issuing authority for coins.

Reserve Banks distribute new and circulated coin to depository institutions to meet the public's demand, and take as deposits coin that exceeds the public's needs. http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12626.htmhere.

[NONOFED]

By using Federal Reserve Notes you are devaluing the USD. Coins used to be made of more valuable metals but since the money is devalued so much they replace it with cheaper metals, for instance all coins would become zinc. However if you abandon Federal Reserve Notes and use Coins you will make the dollar more valuable, reverse national debt, and will eventually lead to more valuable metals consisting in the coins, your essentially reversing the process that has been playing out for the past 100 years.

Banks started by storing your valuable coins in the bank, they would give you a note to redeem for your coins, they then figured they can issue many slips and then eventually they didn't have enough coins to pay you and this would constitute a bank run and bankruptcy. Today they still do the same thing, they give Federal Reserve Notes which are to be redeemed in coin. Take your notes to the bank and redeem them for what is yours, stop passing around I Owe You notes. Go to a bank with few tens of thousands, maybe even a few thousand, and redeem for coins, this would capsize many banks branches; they can't support it.

Rally people together and demand what is yours. Make a statement to these banks, publicize it.

Do not keep your money in the bank except within a safe box or in your own safe box at home. Stop using Fed note IOUs and get paid what is yours in coin and use those on a daily basis.

[Brian]

By using Federal Reserve Notes you are devaluing the USD. Coins used to be made of more valuable metals but since the money is devalued so much they replace it with cheaper metals, for instance all coins would become zinc. However if you abandon Federal Reserve Notes and use Coins you will make the dollar more valuable, reverse national debt, and will eventually lead to more valuable metals consisting in the coins, your essentially reversing the process that has been playing out for the past 100 years.

Banks started by storing your valuable coins in the bank, they would give you a note to redeem for your coins, they then figured they can issue many slips and then eventually they didn't have enough coins to pay you and this would constitute a bank run and bankruptcy. Today they still do the same thing, they give Federal Reserve Notes which are to be redeemed in coin. Take your notes to the bank and redeem them for what is yours, stop passing around I Owe You notes. A few tens of thousands, if that, would capsize many banks branches.

Do not keep your money in the bank except within a safe box or in your own safe box at home. Stop using Fed note IOUs and get paid what is yours in coin and use those on a daily basis.

Gather people together and demand what is yours. Make a statement to these banks.

Yes! Exactly! We cannot go back to gold and silver unless we #1 Do what NOFED is saying and walk back the debt in slow and methodical way like he suggests. Just like how we lost gold and silver in coins over 100 years. Gold being the first casualty and silver the next. It took 20 years to kill off gold coin and another 30 years to kill off silver coins. It will take a similar time to reverse the process. OR we can #2: default on the debt and revalue everything and reintroduce gold and silver coin and start the process again as we will have learned nothing! The bankers will play the same game plan again. and again...and again....