Redeeming Lawful Money on Daily Paul

[David Merrill]

It is the difference between "lawful money" and "lawful money of the United States" we should discuss.

The former is issued by any source (conventionally and presently the private Federal Reserve Bank) declared by Congress to be "lawful money". The latter can ONLY BE issued SOLELY by the United States Treasury and it is inelastic, conforming to the biblical law of just weights and measures.

Do you endorse the former, or demand the latter?

That is the issue and it is a matter of trust.

That is a good distinction and I also want to throw in a third thought system.

Money of Account.

There is also no definition of money of account, even though Congress will sometimes refer to it. This precept stands in case law on an interesting post-Civil War case called Trebilcock v. Wilson. It develops a subsequent doctrine that if you tender legal tender to me and I refuse to accept it, then I have waived your obligation to perform. - Meaning you get the goods or services already tendered for free. Look carefully at this Public Office Money Certificate.

Oops! Small image - it says,

[allodial]

Yes good points. Consider USA Constitution Article I, Section 10, Clause 1:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.

A restriction on States clearly. However, is the term "State" referring to members of the confederation "The United States of America" or does it mean State as territorial-State of the United States or something else? On one hand, seems the confederation members are being restricted to gold and silver coin but not so with the territorial-states or the singular state called "the United States" or "the United States of America" ? (Consider also the Coinage Act of 1792.)

USA Constitution Article I, Section 8:

The Congress shall have Power To ...
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Note the lack of restriction on the type of "Money" for the Territorial (U.S.) Government.

The prospect of there being at least a territorial currency and a non-territorial currency seems worth pondering. The prospect of there being two types of territorial money (i.e. one 'lawful' and the other merely 'legal') might be worth considering as well. Redemption for lawful money may very well result in changing of character of the ledgering and underwriting for any given bill in circulation.

***

On topic of money of account or accounting units vs lawful money, it might be worth considering: trade dollar vs unit of account.

[allodial]

Definitions of dollar.

Definition of "Dollar"

Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1856 Edition
DOLLAR, money. A silver coin of the United States of the value of one hundred
cents, or tenth part of an eagle.
2. It weighs four hundred and twelve and a half grains. Of one thousand parts,
nine hundred are of pure silver and one hundred of alloy. Act of January 18,
1837, ss. 8 & 9, 4 Sharsw. Cont. of Story's L. U. S. 2523, 4; Wright, R. 162.
3. In all computations at the custom-house, the specie dollar of Sweden and
Norway shall be estimated at one hundred and six cents. The specie dollar of
Denmark, at one hundred and five cents. Act of May 22, 1846.
CENT, money. A copper coin of the United States of the value of ten mills; ten
of them are equal to a dime, and one hundred, to one dollar. Each cent is
required to contain one hundred and sixty-eight grains. Act of January 18th,
1837, 4 Sharsw. cont. of Story',s L. U. S. 2524.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 1st Edition (1891)
DOLLAR. The unit employed in the United States in calculating money values. It
is coined both in gold and silver, and is of the value of one hundred cents.
CENT. A coin of the United States, the least in value of those now minted. It
is the hundredth part of a dollar. Its weight is 72 gr., and it is composed of
copper and nickel in the ratio of 88 to 12.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 3rd Edition (1933)
DOLLAR. The unit employed in the United States in calculating money values. It
is coined both in gold and silver, and is of the value of one hundred cents.
Thompson v. State, 90 Rex. Cr. R. 125, 234 S. W. 406, 408.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 4th Edition (1951)
DOLLAR. The unit employed in the United States in calculating money values. It
is coined both in gold and silver, and is of the value of one hundred cents.
People v. Alba 46 Cal.App.2d 859, 117 P.2d 63. Money or currency issued by
lawful authority and intended to pass and circulated as such. Neufield v.
United States, 118 f,2d 375, 387, 73 App.D.C. 174. The dollar of nine-tenths
fine consisting of the weight determined under the 31 U.S.C.A. § 321, shall be
the standard unit of value, and all forms of money issued or coined shall be
maintained at a parity of value with this standard. 31 U.S.C.A. § 314.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 4th Edition Revised (1957)
DOLLAR. The unit employed in the United States in calculating money values. It
is of the value of 100 cents. People v. Alba, 46 Cal.App.2d 859, 117 P.2d 63.
Money or currency issued by lawful authority and intended to pass and circulated
as such. Neufield v. United States, 118 f,2d 375, 387, 73 App.D.C. 174.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 5th Edition (1968)
Dollar. The money unit employed in the United States of the value of one
hundred cents, or any combination of coins totalling one hundred cents.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 6th Edition (1979)
Dollar. The money unit employed in the United States of the value of one
hundred cents, or any combination of coins totalling one hundred cents.

Cent. A coin of the United States, the least in value of those now minted. It
is the hundredth part of a dollar.

Blacks Law Dictionary, 7th Edition (current edition)
(No definition for "dollar" or "cent" found)

Ballentines Law Dictionary, 2nd Edition (1930 & 1948)
Dollar (dol'ar). " There is no ambiguity about the word 'dollar'." If any word
has a settled meaning at law, and in the courts, it is this. It can only mean
the legal currency of the United States, not dollars vested in lands. A dollar
is the volume of money, and is by law made a money unit value of the value of
one hundred cents. See State v. Downs, 148 Ind. 324, 327.

Ballentines Law Dictionary, 3rd Edition (1969)
dollar. The legal currency of the United States; State v Downs, 148 Ind 324,
327; the unit of money consisting of one hundred cents. The aggregate of
specific coins which add up to one dollar. 36 Am J1st Money § 8. In the
absence of qualifying words, it cannot mean promissory notes, bonds, or other
evidences of debt. 36 AM J1st Money § 8. (Emphasis Added)

American Jurisprudence, Volume 36, § 8
[T]he term "dollar" means money, since it is the unit of money in this country,
and in the absence of qualifying words, it cannot mean promissory notes or bonds
or other evidences of debt. The term also refers to specific coins of the value
of one dollar. (27 Ohio Jur pp. 125, 126, § 3), (United States v. Van Auken, 96
US 366, 24 L ed 852)

Black's Law, Second Pocket Edition (1996)
Federal Reserve Note
Federal reserve note. The paper currency in circulation in the United States.
The notes are issued by the Federal Reserve Banks, are effectively
non-interest-bearing promissory notes payable to bearer on demand, and are
issued in denominations of $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100, $500, $1,000, $5,000,
and $10,000. (Emphasis Added)

Title 18 § 8. - Obligation or other security of the United States defined
The term ''obligation or other security of the United States'' includes all
bonds, certificates of indebtedness, national bank currency, Federal Reserve
notes, Federal Reserve bank notes, coupons, United States notes, Treasury notes,
gold certificates, silver certificates, fractional notes, certificates of
deposit, bills, checks, or drafts for money, drawn by or upon authorized
officers of the United States, stamps and other representatives of value, of
whatever denomination, issued under any Act of Congress, and canceled United
States stamps. (Emphasis Added)

[mikecz]

That is a good distinction and I also want to throw in a third thought system.

Money of Account.

There is also no definition of money of account, even though Congress will sometimes refer to it. This precept stands in case law on an interesting post-Civil War case called Trebilcock v. Wilson. It develops a subsequent doctrine that if you tender legal tender to me and I refuse to accept it, then I have waived your obligation to perform. - Meaning you get the goods or services already tendered for free. Look carefully at this Public Office Money Certificate.

Oops! Small image - it says,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tips_and_tricks/message/17135

[allodial]

(Corrected and clarified earlier post moreso. Had network issues.)

[David Merrill]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tips_a.../message/17135

What a Post! You sound like a child on Christmas morning...

There is a lot there alright! Gobs of presents just waiting to be unwrapped.

These instruments work but the consideration is "money on account". That is why the statute cited has been repealed and US notes were bundled into United States currency notes, in order to legitimize (criminal syndacalism) Title 31 is now positive law, and rationalize pegging the inelastic US note to the elastic FRN in value. It was only when I tried to set up an account with the City of XXXXX/METRO for future parking tickets etc. that the DA had a handle on Theft and Forgery charges. I had to depose the DA to get out from under that dog pile.

[allodial]

In a game called Runescape, there is an area called "the Wildy" or "the Wilderness". The rules that normally apply in the game dont apply. Things that can get accounts banned or blocked or guards sent after you in the regular part of the game dont necessarily apply. The same model might have applicability as to what might fly in the territories might not fly in America. The while there might be a lawful money of the United States there might also be the prospect of being finagled by someone dishonest--by some kind of criminal syndicate. As in the differences in currencies might be more easily comprehended in terms of what can be gotten away with and where. Of course, then there is the matter of exigent circumstances. Gilpin was, afterall a Territorial Governor. Of course, a sovereign might not be able to dabble in certain activities due to prescriptive duties, a private syndicate might not be subject to such limitations.

[mikecz]

What a Post! You sound like a child on Christmas morning...

There is a lot there alright! Gobs of presents just waiting to be unwrapped.

These instruments work but the consideration is "money on account". That is why the statute cited has been repealed and US notes were bundled into United States currency notes, in order to legitimize (criminal syndacalism) Title 31 is now positive law, and rationalize pegging the inelastic US note to the elastic FRN in value. It was only when I tried to set up an account with the City of XXXXX/METRO for future parking tickets etc. that the DA had a handle on Theft and Forgery charges. I had to depose the DA to get out from under that dog pile.

Soo, tell me what happened here. You tried to create and account in "the account of united states", they charged you with theft and forgery. You charged him for not completing an oath...(within 30 days?) Did you win? Was he ousted? (please answer)

Also, there is definitely a disconnect here between the US note and the FRN, I guess that is where the POMC struck a chord. I for some reason can't believe they've covered all the bases, there has to be something out there to let us realize the true value of this note... (anything further?)

[allodial]

No doubt David Merrill would be best to reply. From what I recall he deposed the District Attorney. What he was aiming to do makes perfect sense. David Merrill, did the Letter of Credit come after the POMC?

[Franco]

[David Merrill]

At the risk of sounding arrogant, you guys are all getting it fine. I really do change my belief sets as new information comes in! If and only if the new intelligence meets general rules of evidence. I have to get consent to prepare an evidence package (sanitized to the suitor's satisfaction) but here is some Crosstalk - a preview hopefully:

Went to court today to inquire about the docket. Nothing scheduled for True Name or Legal Name.

So far, so good. I'm getting the hang of this.

Picture attached. Of police officers/cars at traffic stop.

Thank You!

----- Original Message -----
From: David Merrill < >
To:
Sent: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:29:52 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: RE: dumb question

The Chief of Police and your evidence repository.
Call me for instructions please.

-----Original Message-----

From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 201310:01 AM
To: David Merrill
Subject: dumb question

R4C'ing a traffic citation - do you recommend returning it to...

1. address on envelope provided by officer.
2. organization (city police) the officer works for, or
3. court address (court where any agreed hearing would likely be held) ?

thank you,

Nickname

Sure enough I found the R4C in the evidence repository all marked up by the US clerk of court. The suitor was carrying a certified copy in case there was an appearance required. The traffic stop - speeding and illegal lane change for over $200. He would have gone into the courtroom and when his case was called he would have appeared restricted (Rule E(8)) to prevent fraud on the court - which is to say the chief of police had not sent the R4C to the court too. If the CoP had sent the R4C then the judge would have had to decide whether or not the suitor had a right of refusal.

Like he says though; So far, so Good. Nothing will really be proven until next time he is out and gets stopped. We always hope he stays out of trouble but this sort of thing happens.

When he was stopped with a driver license signed in his true name he informed the officer that he was not using the Card for identification purposes - competence only. The officer began asking about his mental competence and called an ambulance! The EMT's cleared him after asking about psychiatric history and medications. The officers issued the ticket anyway and apparently in vain as the clerk of court (city attorneys) have rejected the cause from the chief of police.

The Libel of Review is integral as it makes his ongoing demand for lawful money clearly on the "exclusive original cognizance" of the United States government. The clerk instruction is on the R4C on the original ticket. So the clerks who view it can look it up on PACER and see that it really is on the record. All that is left to try is the suitor's right of refusal and since he is out of contract with the Fed that will get sticky. All officers are trained to testify on the witness stand under oath about in personam jurisdiction - How did the defendant identify himself? The attorney in the black robe is trained to listen for it from the arresting officer.

[Looking at the docket report of his LoR however shows that he has saved well over the $350 filing fee in R4C's.]

Soo, tell me what happened here. You tried to create and account in "the account of united states", they charged you with theft and forgery. You charged him for not completing an oath...(within 30 days?) Did you win? Was he ousted? (please answer)

Also, there is definitely a disconnect here between the US note and the FRN, I guess that is where the POMC struck a chord. I for some reason can't believe they've covered all the bases, there has to be something out there to let us realize the true value of this note... (anything further?)

I won my freedom. There have never been any consequences of any slurs on "my record" and if there are I will show the potential employer etc. how SUTHERS was running a vacant office. A friend of his reported that he was cleaning out his office the next morning. He had been voted out after eight years anyway but left the office six weeks early. The newspapers asked him why he was leaving early and he gave no comment.

That is important, to keep honor and peace. If I had gone public with the Certificate of Fact then eight years of convictions would have potentially and probably been reversed, up for retrial. Technically they still can be and civil suits would stack up behind my $20M Lien that came to cure while SUTHERS was and is the State Attorney General. My perception is that he let things cool off while at the Department of Corrections in Florence. Then he moved for AG. Look how perfect his oath is now!

Disconnect between the FRN and US note? That is my standing accusation! Allodial wrote a significant post about that though - so you all see it too - the connection between "money on account" and "lawful money" in America.

Look at the dates:

His first oath of 2005 is bogus as he does not conform to statute or even law, considering that swearing means that you hold a competent witness (the ever-living God). If you swear that means you make yourself accountable to the Witness in Authority - God.

They leave me alone anymore - but then I stay out of trouble too. - Always wise to be a peaceful minister of the public trust. I teach peace too. That is how come I have peace. But every conviction since January 13, 2009 around here is in jeopardy so it is no big surprise they leave me to my teaching here and on the brain trust. [Just look at the current DA's signed confession! He knows he is outside the IN GOD WE TRUST (on the money) and SO HELP ME (the very same monothiesm) GOD (which is not on his (Dan MAY, the current DA around here) oath of office like statute requires because he bought a $5K insurance policy instead!] Dan MAY knows that he is not covered by the Comptroller of the State Treasury.

No doubt David Merrill would be best to reply. From what I recall he deposed the District Attorney. What he was aiming to do makes perfect sense. David Merrill, did the Letter of Credit come after the POMC?

The Letter of Credit was already in place. That particular POMC (and about five others) worked great. The Forgery charge was that I made them POMC look too much like a regular bank check. The Theft charge was that I was trying to set up moneys in an account for my use to pay off future tickets and court fines. I was in violation of the general trust agreement.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9008/pomc.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3385/letterofcredit1.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4481/letterofcredit2.jpg

Because I spent 72 days in jail about it I cannot suggest people try this.



You seem to have answered your own question. I went over this with a new suitor yesterday and it is the same conditioning that affects a limited displacement hysteria about Signature Cards. I will try to clarify:

People around here feel the bank is being unresponsive to your demand for lawful money? - To the contrary! Especially folks who have letters from the bank... You have proof of service that you made your demand right there in your hand! Can you stop your whirring mind long enough to let that sink in?

[If I posted that on the wrong place or some other error...] Get it? That is conditioning too; but I plan to try clawing my way through this disguise (Re: The Wall) around here with some forceful posts in appropriate threads soon.

Do you USE your SSN for insurance policy identification/claim only?

If I ask you, Do you have a Social Security Number? - Would you answer, Yes?

Why would you say that to me?

Are you making a claim on an insurance policy with me?

Answer: No. I do not have a Social Security Number (for you, David Merrill).

[mikecz]

David,

Slow clap (hopefully others joining in). Nice work. OK, I get the oath I get the clerk stating he was occupying a vacant office (that had to feel good while getting noterized).

Now, what's with the 20 million dollar lien. Wtf, was this against the DA? I see Greenspan on there, just wanted to know how/why you did that? For damages? Also, I read through the default judgment, its all in there, and as with no response within a given time frame, it can be ...insert your case here. I'm learning a lot here and am enjoying hearing others posts as well...but, can you elaborate on the lien?

[allodial]

The reason we cannot redeem the gold directly is because those coins are held in trust for all those demanding lawful money redemption. With over 300 million people in the US, it would be impossible to keep the coins actually circulating. With the FRN price of gold, they would be quickly destroyed for their gold and not traded at face value.

If one looks at the reasons for taking silver out of coinage it evidences indirect holding (see UCC Article 8). The concern was that coins were being taken out of circulation for their intrinsic value (Coinage Act of 1965).

The Social Security Administration invests in U.S. Treasury securities and are one of the biggest investors in the United States Government and likely the tune of over $2T per year.

[shikamaru]

Social Security "trust fund" is a misnomer.

Excise (FICA) taxes collected for Social Security go into the general fund of government.

The dollars collected from SS aren't even earmarked in any way.

[allodial]

Consider the Federal Reserve Systems custodial role the Federal Reserve System might have as pertains to U.S. Treasury Securities per Title 31 of the Code of Federal Regulations.