Substance of the R4C

[gdude]

Thanks for the reply David, No it was non-interest bearing checking, but they do make you open a savings as well...I put $25 dollars in it. I signed cards for both accounts. I opened the accounts yesterday morning, they called me in the afternoon. I felt bad for the girl I was working with, she was accommodating and apologetic, she was caught in the middle. Yes, I probably shouldn't have agreed verbally to shut the account down, as they were demanding a new sig card....live and learn.... They could not produce a law either.

[David Merrill]

Well, I might have celebrated to early.... the bank called today to ask to come in and resign the signature card....UGH! I explained (calmly) to them that it was within my rights to sign it that way, if they can cite a law that says that I can't sign it that way..then I will sign a new card or cancel the account.

All comments Welcome

If it has been more than about three days the novation sticks. The attorneys probably got that call in within the three days?

They are trying to make you cancel the account. You have agreed to verbally now (if they show you a law). I would not have done that. You can tell them you changed your mind. You like the account and the signature card the way they are. But I would not bother. Just keep on using the account like regular...

Wait a minute; is it an interest-bearing account? They might have to change that to non-interest-bearing. You are not granting the benefit of fractional lending so they should not be compelled to give you the benefit of interest. That might be what they are standing on for a cause to reject the non-endorsement.

Look at your papers and get back to us please.

[gdude]

Thanks for the info Chex... the pdf seems to be a guide that the banks are to follow, in other words.. the sig card shouldn't be accepted if altered.

As an Update to my experience with US bank.... they said that they needed to have me re sign the sig card....I refused....they closed the account! Nice, huh?

I'm thinking of just getting my Demand notarized and put on record and send a copy to my current bank and the local FED bank. Trying to get the demand on a sig card seems like it will be an uphill battle at any bank...

[Chex]

Maybe an answer is in here or maybe a contact number might answer some questions.

https://www.tcul.coop/sites/25043ee8-a7e7-4aeb-8304-a91b5e7553c9/uploads/Understanding_Sig_Cards_10_29_08_Handouts.pdf

And it never fails who is involved: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2479887.story

[gdude]

Well, I might have celebrated to early.... the bank called today to ask to come in and resign the signature card....UGH! I explained (calmly) to them that it was within my rights to sign it that way, if they can cite a law that says that I can't sign it that way..then I will sign a new card or cancel the account.

All comments Welcome

[David Merrill]

I remember long ago I went for a meeting - I think it was an audit. I had notified the agent at least ten days prior that I would be recording the meeting and so he could not stop me according to some rule somewhere. I was formally escorted in past the lobby. He wanted to create the illusion I was being detained when he got angry and said, Wait here! He got up and slammed the door to the tiny office behind him. I gave him a few seconds and left the office and meandered around the cubicle area, found a drinking fountain an so forth - basically enjoying myself in an obviously prohibited area with access to computers etc. I watched from the far end as he returned to the office with a Supervisor or whoever and discovered me gone. They spotted me and looked a little alarmed that instead of detaining me they had let me loose in the office cubicles.

Thanks Shikamaru.

Like you say, it may come in useful. At the very least make sure the IRS has a judicial summons before submitting. Interestingly even that does not mean one must open the records?

That reminds me of my jury summons many years ago. I went fifteen minutes early and looked up the statutes and found out that all I had to do was be there. I did not answer the questionaires any more than filling in the information they had on the summons.

[shikamaru]

I find it alarming that you have to sign a document that in and of itself perjures you either way. I think it is more under duress because if you dont sign it then theoretically you go to jail.

IRS sucks

The power of declaration used, yet again, to cut oneself .... en manu

Sword declaration

I've seen such footers on bank forms too.

[BAMAJiPS]

I find it alarming that you have to sign a document that in and of itself perjures you either way. I think it is more under duress because if you dont sign it then theoretically you go to jail.

IRS sucks

[gdude]

Well, that would apply also, wouldn't it?

I mean, you are compelled to file a 1040, or so auntie would have you believe...

But reserving your rights would also protect you from entering into a contract with unknown obligations....correct?

[BAMAJiPS]

Wouldn't signing a 1040 "Under duress" be more prudent?

[gdude]

But I wonder if auntie has some magical penalty waiting for anyone daring to sign his name with "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" on a 1040?? Has anyone done this?

[LearnTheLaw]

That is why this SC decision is so important.

Remember, this means ALL rights must be waved voluntarily.



"Waivers of Constitutional rights not only must be voluntary, but must be knowing, intelligent acts done with sufficient awareness of the relevant circumstances and likely consequences."
[Brady v. U.S., 397 U.S. 742 (1970)]

[David Merrill]

[QUOTE=Bob Conlon;9227]

David! Thank you for this thread. I had lost track of that fascinating bank letter. Do you happen to know what "appropriate steps" Mr. [Redacted] followed to object to the release of bank records?[/QUOTE

Hi David, Where should a beginner start with the process? Is this Admiralty? The IRS is coming after me bigtime and I must learn to defend myself using techniques that work. Any suggestions?

Thanks, Bob Conlon

The Lesson Plan around here evolved around 1) true name identity 2) Record Forming (Libel of Review) and 3) redeeming lawful money.

[gdude]

any help available?

[QUOTE=stoneFree;9199]David! Thank you for this thread. I had lost track of that fascinating bank letter. Do you happen to know what "appropriate steps" Mr. [Redacted] followed to object to the release of bank records?[/QUOTE

Hi David, Where should a beginner start with the process? Is this Admiralty? The IRS is coming after me bigtime and I must learn to defend myself using techniques that work. Any suggestions?

Thanks, Bob Conlon