Re: Self Determination

[Michael Joseph]

I just checked in to see what condition my condition was in...

Methinks you be "Fogging" this issue. Dude, the Lebowski reference is excellent.

Duderonomy 2:5
5. Respect everyone's point of view. It's just, like, their opinion, man.

Rofl....

----------------------------------------------
Yet,

I do not think we can discuss the Self without going to Philosophy. And inevitably we are going to end up at Origins. What is the Self and who Created it? Those questions beg for something greater than Us and someone that is without us; yet, perhaps that one, is also within us. Or said another way dwells with us in our Intellect - Spirit. The Self being the True me - Nephesh as the Hebrews say [crossing over].

Yet the Self also goes to Identity. And Identity goes to construct. Identity where and per whose terms. Shall I use a name to identify my Self? That name is an operation of mathematics / law = model - that lowers my True Self - Soul. If I use a name to "help" me with relationships, then my name is amongst other names. Is not a name a claim? Of course it is. Yet, we live in Society so we need a way of dealing with each other and names seem to be a practical solution. Yet see that a name is a persona and as such a means to belittle man - a mask. I heard a clerk say more than once - "Can I have your name, Sir?" Will I grant an agency over my Self to another?

Then I heard another speak of a Legal Name. Is that the Self? Or is this just a choice to further degrade the Self? Legal to what construct? Legal goes to Trust. So then who holds the titles in and for that Legal Name?

Now man has lowered his Self with a name and now there is a further Choice to use a Legal Name. The Self is without the naming convention - the name is just a label to belittle - the Self is Supreme and Divine. All Souls are Mine sayeth YHVH. Yet if the choice is made to belittle one's self, then the idea of diversity comes into play. All souls belong to YHVH as Creator - then vested in Yehoshua, as Trustee - we as Owners - owners of what - Owner goes to who has the Right of Use - we do with Choice. Yet, if the Creator decides to Act against his creation - He hardened Pharoah's heart - The Creator is with that Ability as Creator.

Diversity goes to Construct. Diversity from what?

Exploring the so called Right of Self Determination.....Who granted that Right? Was it a man or are man's conventions just reflecting the greater light. Sort of like the moon reflects the light of the sun - said another way - are man's writings just reflecting the idea that the Right of Self Determination is a grant from the Creator we are with Choice to choose ye this day. Life or Death - Jeremiah 17:5 or 17:7.

Therefore man is without the ability to grant Divine Rights, yet man can recognize that those Rights = Property = Ability to Use exist. As such, do I require a Society to recognize my path? Yes and No.

The question remains, what are your express intentions and how will you live at peace with your neighbor absent trespass? Mistakes happen; yet, will you express your willingness to come to the table with Standing to show your Responsibility and Accountability?

I heard one say - nonsense. Why must I be compelled to do such a thing? Do you live alone on an island? Or do you interact with others daily? I'll wager the latter. Now the question only remains how will you express this Self Determination? And tell me how do you plan on identifying your Self?

[Frederick Burrell]

Perhaps you could just experience the Self. Takes it out of the intellectual realm, which can get so wordy and never come to a place of knowing. This I would think would be the difference between experiencing something and just intellectualizing about it. Frederick Burrell.

"Are you experienced" Jimi

Frederick Burrell

[Metheist]

I do not think we can discuss the Self without going to Philosophy. And inevitably we are going to end up at Origins.

Which, ironically, is where "opinion" comes in. And, opinion, is where confirmation bias (I call it "conformation" bias) comes in.

What is the Self and who Created it?

Just take it easy, Man.

If you get a thousand people, you may indeed come up with a thousand different answers, but one prevailing attitude: They all believe they are right, and yet cannot prove it.

Those questions beg for something greater than Us and someone that is without us; yet, perhaps that one, is also within us. Or said another way dwells with us in our Intellect - Spirit. The Self being the True me - Nephesh as the Hebrews say [crossing over].

Those questions beg for the creator to make itself known, in a full-disclosure sort of way. Or, said creator can leave said created self in the dark, floundering around, while finding said creation a source of great entertainment, much like the "Truman Show," all while demanding (again according to opinions of interpretation of a sole communication purportedly left behind many centuries ago, with no software upgrades or bug reporting system, or even a help desk number where "users" can get help, especially with connectivity issues: "My blacktooth is not picking up this frequency")

I can only testify that the summons I have issued were returned as "undeliverable."

Yet the Self also goes to Identity. And Identity goes to construct. Identity where and per whose terms. Shall I use a name to identify my Self? That name is an operation of mathematics / law = model - that lowers my True Self - Soul. If I use a name to "help" me with relationships, then my name is amongst other names. Is not a name a claim? Of course it is. Yet, we live in Society so we need a way of dealing with each other and names seem to be a practical solution. Yet see that a name is a persona and as such a means to belittle man - a mask. I heard a clerk say more than once - "Can I have your name, Sir?" Will I grant an agency over my Self to another?

Then I heard another speak of a Legal Name. Is that the Self? Or is this just a choice to further degrade the Self? Legal to what construct? Legal goes to Trust. So then who holds the titles in and for that Legal Name?

Now man has lowered his Self with a name and now there is a further Choice to use a Legal Name. The Self is without the naming convention - the name is just a label to belittle - the Self is Supreme and Divine. All Souls are Mine sayeth YHVH.

So YHVH just lowered himself by incorporating a name? I don't get the "lowering" by using a name. Why not "raising?" I thought that the "Messiah" was given a name above every name? Wouldn't that be raising, instead of lowering? (Although he wasn't given the name that was prophesied...)

Yet if the choice is made to belittle one's self, then the idea of diversity comes into play.

Again, if using a name is "lowering," then how does this apply to us, but not to the "creator?"


[QUOTE=Michael Joseph;104]

All souls belong to YHVH as Creator - then vested in Yehoshua, as Trustee

Isn't this a claim? I would imagine that you, MJ are the claimant for this thread, anyway, but the ORIGINAL claimant, who is that? Why has the right to cross-examine, or continued communication, ceased?

- we as Owners - owners of what - Owner goes to who has the Right of Use - we do with Choice. Yet, if the Creator decides to Act against his creation - He hardened Pharoah's heart - The Creator is with that Ability as Creator.

This is where I get confused, because if the Creator can decide to act against his creation, then why not just a little communication from said Creator? And, further, can said creator write on stone tablets, and on the wall of a palace, but with the most important writing, the one that the purported creation is supposed to rely on for centuries upon end, the same Creator, at the time of such writing, decided to work through "agents" instead of taking time out of his busy schedule of being entertained by his creation...

The logic isn't there for me, nor is the faith, since the logic is so, well, illogical.

Diversity goes to Construct. Diversity from what?

Exploring the so called Right of Self Determination.....Who granted that Right?

Who needs to? I say who I am. Who's stopping me? You've seen judges agree that I can call myself whatever I want, and you've seen them agree that I am the man, rather than the legal name.

But, why do I need their agreement? (or the creator's agreement, although to get response for any reason would be a definite change)

[As a side note, the performance review seems a little late for me also... (It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment) Couldn't we kinda have a few sessions as we go along, and kinda tweak things, so that the end meeting wouldn't be so one sided?]

Was it a man or are man's conventions just reflecting the greater light. Sort of like the moon reflects the light of the sun - said another way - are man's writings just reflecting the idea that the Right of Self Determination is a grant from the Creator we are with Choice to choose ye this day. Life or Death - Jeremiah 17:5 or 17:7.

Again, for me, this goes to relevance. If this is truly relevant, then so is up to the minute, real time communication. No talky, no walky...

Therefore man is without the ability to grant Divine Rights, yet man can recognize that those Rights = Property = Ability to Use exist. As such, do I require a Society to recognize my path? Yes and No.

And yet the pope grants such rights to the monarch of London.

The question remains, what are your express intentions and how will you live at peace with your neighbor absent trespass? Mistakes happen; yet, will you express your willingness to come to the table with Standing to show your Responsibility and Accountability?

I heard one say - nonsense. Why must I be compelled to do such a thing? Do you live alone on an island? Or do you interact with others daily? I'll wager the latter. Now the question only remains how will you express this Self Determination? And tell me how do you plan on identifying your Self?

I see this dance all the time. Honor is developed and built. Demand for honor, when no honor has been extended, is something that I am adverse with...

[Michael Joseph]

I can experience my Self - Soul all the day long, yet, I cannot prove to you anything about my own experiences they are my own truths - or said another way - true for me and noone else as I cannot prove the existence of my Soul. Is it like a River? A river looks the same from day to day, yet it is composed of different Hydrogen and Oxygen matter at any given time. Therefore while it looks the same it is in fact ever changing. Consider now your Self. It is not static it is dynamic and couple the Eve to the Adam - the Spirit and the soul - one can Create too - by Choice.

Is the act of Creation the act of Self Determination? I think so. A choice to do a thing. The thought first impregnating the mind to think and create. I can conceive it, I can do it.

Which, ironically, is where "opinion" comes in. And, opinion, is where confirmation bias (I call it "conformation" bias) comes in.

Agreed. And that leads to Re- Ligions. And religions lead to separation - dividing the assembly. Who is with the real truth. And said separation is good for those who seek to divide man as that one enjoys the power vested in him by his following. Yet, you cannot escape Origins. I however, leave it up to you to resolve Origins.

If you get a thousand people, you may indeed come up with a thousand different answers, but one prevailing attitude: They all believe they are right, and yet cannot prove it.

Exactly the point. Prove you have a soul. Prove there is a God. Prove you were created. You can't do it, neither can I, yet I experience. And my experiences cannot be proven. Therefore the Self Determination is an outward expression of Choice.

If I choose to Not be Under a certain construct of Laws, will not my actions imply my trust? If the opposite then I am one confused man.

Those questions beg for the creator to make itself known, in a full-disclosure sort of way. Or, said creator can leave said created self in the dark, floundering around, while finding said creation a source of great entertainment, much like the "Truman Show," all while demanding (again according to opinions of interpretation of a sole communication purportedly left behind many centuries ago, with no software upgrades or bug reporting system, or even a help desk number where "users" can get help, especially with connectivity issues: "My blacktooth is not picking up this frequency")

I can only testify that the summons I have issued were returned as "undeliverable."

Here I have no response. As again, out of respect, I refuse to trespass upon you. Absent judgment, I remain upon my own expressions and I refuse to impose my expression upon you absent you asking me for it and engaging me in question or request.

So YHVH just lowered himself by incorporating a name? I don't get the "lowering" by using a name. Why not "raising?" I thought that the "Messiah" was given a name above every name? Wouldn't that be raising, instead of lowering? (Although he wasn't given the name that was prophesied...)


Again, if using a name is "lowering," then how does this apply to us, but not to the "creator?"

Okay, I accept that rationale. Let me re-phrase - who gives issue to the name that men are called? Is it not mom and dad? Who gave issue to the Messiah's name? Was it not the Creator? I believe the Creator said 'you will worship me where I place my name'. Yet that sort of strays from this discourse.

Mom and Dad named me. Yet the State also created a name for me. But noone made me use the State's name. That was my own Choice - my own Self Determination. The State's name belongs to the State. Back to Survey. When the Child was born was there not a Survey upon the Child? Of course there was. And the Survey formed the basis of the new Birth - Trust Certificate. Yet, the Child is still with the ability to Chose his own Self Determination.

All souls belong to YHVH as Creator - then vested in Yehoshua, as Trustee

Response by Methist: Isn't this a claim? I would imagine that you, MJ are the claimant for this thread, anyway, but the ORIGINAL claimant, who is that? Why has the right to cross-examine, or continued communication, ceased?

I admit that is a claim based in part to my lack of knowledge. And based upon the Scripture, which I believe to be truth. Yet, I cannot prove either one to be truth. it is my belief based on experience. Yet, your experiences may be different. So I choose to live and let live. I cannot save you nor you me. So why should I trespass upon you with my belief systems.

Yet, I have studied extensively Origins without - philosophers - and within - my own experiences and my own determinations based on my observations. And I have realized I cannot 1) identify myself and 2) know beyond origins 3) fathom that matter can just become absent an expression of will.

Therefore, I reject that we are absent a Creator. But I think that we can see a glimpse of the Creator in other men - as the Creator dwells with man's spirit.

This is where I get confused, because if the Creator can decide to act against his creation, then why not just a little communication from said Creator? And, further, can said creator write on stone tablets, and on the wall of a palace, but with the most important writing, the one that the purported creation is supposed to rely on for centuries upon end, the same Creator, at the time of such writing, decided to work through "agents" instead of taking time out of his busy schedule of being entertained by his creation...

The logic isn't there for me, nor is the faith, since the logic is so, well, illogical.

I accept that those are your view and beliefs I shall respect them.

Who needs to? I say who I am. Who's stopping me? You've seen judges agree that I can call myself whatever I want, and you've seen them agree that I am the man, rather than the legal name.

But, why do I need their agreement? (or the creator's agreement, although to get response for any reason would be a definite change)

[As a side note, the performance review seems a little late for me also... (It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment) Couldn't we kinda have a few sessions as we go along, and kinda tweak things, so that the end meeting wouldn't be so one sided?]

Well I see this in another light. I would rather not appear before a judge. Why should I? That is unless I have injured another man or woman or public property. There is no cause to appear. As I do not trust in that. My trust is in the Divine. And my Self Expression is as Priest before Men. Walking in the middle path.

Yet consider the enforcement officer, and his confusion. If you say so what, that's his problem, then enjoy the strife as you will have to deal with his problem. yet there seems to me another way. To Self Express ones position before the fact seems like a better path. But that's just me.

And yet the pope grants such rights to the monarch of London.

The Pope [door] and its Cardinals [hinges for the door] is another thread altogether. Their claim is that they are speaking for God. Therefore the re-write the Scripture and call it a Testament. Acting as Trustee for a Dead Grantor. I find the Pope repugnant. Yet, again, that is for another thread.

I see this dance all the time. Honor is developed and built. Demand for honor, when no honor has been extended, is something that I am adverse with...

Honor is developed and extended to those who render honor to another. If you expressed a new Trust into Existence - a new Society - and you, as Trustee spoke for your estate - then you would be extended honor as you have come to the table with your 'piece of eight'. Else, you might just do nothing and complain about the way you are not honored.

Do I expect the US to honor me? No. Yet, I walk in peace and honor the US by not trespassing upon its jurisdictions and venues.

When I was told not to come back to the courthouse unless I had an appointment, I comprehend. That is a private venue. I was trespassing. And I will not be going into any Court house of the US again, unless I am granted an invitation. And if said invitation is extended, then I shall come speaking for my family and estate as friend of the court to help the court settle the matter before it.

However, in reality, if I should desire I will go where I want to go, because it depends on the Survey and I have just as much right to the Land as another. I AM to the Faithful Son - All that I have is yours.

So therefore, my Self Determination is in the Scripture. Or to be precise is in the Creator. And I walk as an expression of that Determination. Expression of Divine Trust.

[Metheist]

And to that, I would say that we are on the path of searching. (and awareness of our discoveries, severally)

[Michael Joseph]

And to that, I would say that we are on the path of searching. (and awareness of our discoveries, severally)

yet we live together on this planet so how will we ever resolve our disputes absent a third party and absent violence? And thusly the age old problem is yet again expressed - how shall we have meaningful peace?

13. Whenever possible, try to get paid in cash in order to avoid getting bumped up into a higher tax bracket.

5. Take 'er easy for all the sinners of the world, dude. Abide.

[Metheist]

yet we live together on this planet so how will we ever resolve our disputes absent a third party and absent violence? And thusly the age old problem is yet again expressed - how shall we have meaningful peace?

13. Whenever possible, try to get paid in cash in order to avoid getting bumped up into a higher tax bracket.

5. Take 'er easy for all the sinners of the world, dude. Abide.

The Dude abides, Man.

And while there are merits to getting along, sometimes it is an impossibility.

But, we can try. First things first, let's give meaning to all the words.

But not on this thread, Mmmmmmkay?

[Frederick Burrell]

Does one really have choice, or is just an appearance of choice, a deception.
. If one has no choice, how can one have self determination. Are you really that aware of all your subconscious motivations. Frederick Burrell

[Michael Joseph]

Does one really have choice, or is just an appearance of choice, a deception.
. If one has no choice, how can one have self determination. Are you really that aware of all your subconscious motivations. Frederick Burrell

Agreed that a "program" might and often is inserted into the young mind of a child - remember John the Police Officer visiting you in first grade - if you get in trouble just call 911 - Trust Me, I'm your friend.

And, years later when Johnny, or one of his mates, pulls you over on the side of the road, he has to literally tell you to "shut up". Why, because the program was imbedded and is now running in the background and you respond to it without even knowing why.

The judge asks a question, and you just can't help yourself - the mouth spewing words and you wondering why can't I stop talking. Oops, why did I say that. I always do that to myself. Exactly. The program running silently in the background of the sub-conscious mind.

How to defeat it? Go to Alpha and re-program is one way. There are others. Like real life experience to face down the result of breaking the Trust that was instilled in a young child.

Of course there is a Right of Self Determination. You are with the free choice to create. And the World recognizes that Right. It is not given by the World it is given by the Creator. Go forth and take dominion.

I acknowledge Methist who helped me to see it was only fear and at the end of the day, my restrictions were the result of my fear and my trust. When I learned those lessons, I, in part, was on my way to Removing the Policeman in my Head.

Programs like "I pledge allegiance to a Flag........" - all stop. Do you see the absurdity. You are pledging to a piece of cloth. Why in the world would I pledge to a piece of cloth? And said Flag is of the United States of America. And the USA is dependent of the United States. Talk about being in a box.

Yet, I have heard many mom's and dad's spout off on Sunday's...."They don't even say the pledge in school anymore." They love that program. Because it gives them Security.

The Artificial Womb

"From the time a person leaves its mother's womb, its every effort is directed towards building, maintaining, and withdrawing into artificial wombs, various sorts of substitute protective devices or shells.

The objective of these artificial wombs is to provide a stable environment for both stable and unstable activity; to provide a shelter for the evolutionary processes of growth and maturity - i.e., survival; to provide security for freedom and to provide defensive protection for offensive activity.

This is equally true of both the general public and the elite. However, there is a definite difference in the way each of these classes go about the solution of problems."

The Political Structure of a Nation - Dependency

"The primary reason why the individual citizens of a country create a political structure is a subconscious wish or desire to perpetuate their own dependency relationship of childhood. Simply put, they want a human god to eliminate all risk from their life, pat them on the head, kiss their bruises, put a chicken on every dinner table, clothe their bodies, tuck them into bed at night, and tell them that everything will be alright when they wake up in the morning.

This public demand is incredible, so the human god, the politician, meets incredibility with incredibility by promising the world and delivering nothing. So who is the bigger liar? the public? or the "godfather"?

This public behavior is surrender born of fear, laziness, and expediency. It is the basis of the welfare state as a strategic weapon, useful against a disgusting public."

-------

Yet, it does not have to be that way for you. When as a child we are under tutors but as a man we are ready to step forth and take the responsibility of estate.

Galations

4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

[Frederick Burrell]

Yes, but why does one have the disposition to explore their limitations and another one not. Why is one born into a life situation of destitution and another born into a life that supports asking why. From where is the first impulse created that predisposes one man to search out truth and another to become co-dependent in all aspects of life. Frederick Burrell.

[motla68]

Yes, but why does one have the disposition to explore their limitations and another one not. Why is one born into a life situation of destitution and another born into a life that supports asking why. From where is the first impulse created that predisposes one man to search out truth and another to become co-dependent in all aspects of life. Frederick Burrell.

It is even biblical prophecy that all will not survive the end times, a very small portion of the population. Therefore we cannot expect to be able to save the whole world from it's own ignorance. Every year we have an ice storm the people from northern states who are use to driving in snow think they can get in their SUV and drive as fast as they want, it turns the interstate into a parking lot full of flipped vehicles and others who have spun out into the woods or flying off bridges. A local native to the area says he loves it though, natures built in population control so there is less of these people to deal with when he is travelling on the road also said because of these people he will never ride a motorcycle on the road again, got tired of being cutoff and nearly killed because people do not give a crap about a smaller vehicle when they are in their SUVs flying down the road, I could not agree more for I was in a similar situation once.

[Frederick Burrell]

The world does not need saving, it is exactly where it needs to be, as are each and every one of us. It can not be other wise.

Why is it you look at the splinter in your brothers eye and perceive not the rafter in your own. First remove the rafter from your eye and you will see more clearly how to remove the splinter from your brothers.

Fear not that which can kill the body, but that which can kill the soul. You have had many bodies, therefore the admonition is much more relevant. Give thanks, that is has been granted unto you to see through a glass less cloudy, but know that it is not of your doing, but the divine which has pre-ordained your present condition, and learn compassion for your fellow man for they are you. Frederick Burrell

[motla68]

The world does not need saving, it is exactly where it needs to be, as are each and every one of us. It can not be other wise.

Why is it you look at the splinter in your brothers eye and perceive not the rafter in your own. First remove the rafter from your eye and you will see more clearly how to remove the splinter from your brothers.

Fear not that which can kill the body, but that which can kill the soul. You have had many bodies, therefore the admonition is much more relevant. Give thanks, that is has been granted unto you to see through a glass less cloudy, but know that it is not of your doing, but the divine which has pre-ordained your present condition, and learn compassion for your fellow man for they are you. Frederick Burrell

Yes there is compassion, but you cannot save someone who truly does not want to be saved including those who talk the talk but they do not walk the walk of someone who wants to be saved.

[Bear Eagle]

I agree Shikamaru. The problem it seems in our allowance of others to do this. It would seem the only reason why experts, authorities, guardians, patrons, guides, and all other "influences", are created, is for the singular purpose of another to tell another what to believe, where to go, and how to live, that is subjectively correct from the perception of the one issuing forth the claim of "knowing" what is good for others. Its quite laughable really at the base and core of the subject. I shutter at the thought of being in any position to Claim what is good for someone else, and actually have the 'power' to make it so. One reason I have never voted. I just cant live with what that means.

[shikamaru]

I agree Shikamaru. The problem it seems in our allowance of others to do this. It would seem the only reason why experts, authorities, guardians, patrons, guides, and all other "influences", are created, is for the singular purpose of another to tell another what to believe, where to go, and how to live, that is subjectively correct from the perception of the one issuing forth the claim of "knowing" what is good for others. Its quite laughable really at the base and core of the subject. I shutter at the thought of being in any position to Claim what is good for someone else, and actually have the 'power' to make it so. One reason I have never voted. I just cant live with what that means.

This is most fair !!

I concur!