Express trust

[Michael Joseph]

True. However, why does there exist a great insistence about the timing of the writing of the Thomas "gospel" by those who wish to assert its authority and inspiration as equal to the four canonical gospels? Doesn't that matter in regards to its claimed authenticity? The title in your post says it all, "These are the secret words which the Living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas wrote". Really?

If that claim is proven untrue, then what of the rest of it? Also, the four Gospels have 4 key elements in common whereas these are either contradicted, diminished or ignored in the other non-canonical "gospels"...

(1) the apostolic preaching about Jesus, from the beginning, involved four key elements; (2) all four of the canonical gospels have these four elements in common; and (3) the extracanonical gospels do not, and in most cases do not clearly have any of them. These four key elements, identified by Paul in the mid fifties and clearly representing an even earlier tradition, are summarised in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4: (i) the identity of Jesus as the Christ, anointed by the creator God of Israel, (ii) his fulfilment of the Jewish Scriptures, (iii) his effective atoning death on behalf of others, and (iv) his bodily resurrection from death.

source

If there exists contradictions in fundamental theology between the Four Gospels and the non-canonical "gospels", what do you hold as true?

For instance do we suppose that St. Paul was leading a doomsday suicide cult when we read the following or perhaps maybe he means something other than the literal words? I guess what I am getting at is once you know you don't need anyone to teach you.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I do not repose a certain confidence in literalism or formalism readings of Scriptures. For instance Jesus is said to be the lamb slain before the foundation of the world and then later said that the spiritual place of the crucifixion is Egypt and Sodom. The literalist would say He was slain outside of the city at a place call Golgotha [skull] or at Calvary [skull]. Nevertheless, all are true. But it only appears there is conflict until the light behind the symbol is revealed.

Therefore I come from the light as a child of the Father of lights.

It is as Jonah commanded his thoughts [men in the ship] to throw Me overboard!

Jonah 1:15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.

A trust is reposed and established in one who makes a use of a reed established by others. Who established that reed [canon] and what were the uses and purposes? Why did they not tell the readers of the other books that were being cited within their reed? For if other books are being cited, then what of their reed?

I sit not as judge, we can eat what we can and be satisfied.

Shalom,
MJ

[BLBereans]

For instance do we suppose that St. Paul was leading a doomsday suicide cult when we read the following or perhaps maybe he means something other than the literal words? I guess what I am getting at is once you know you don't need anyone to teach you.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I do not repose a certain confidence in literalism or formalism readings of Scriptures. For instance Jesus is said to be the lamb slain before the foundation of the world and then later said that the spiritual place of the crucifixion is Egypt and Sodom. The literalist would say He was slain outside of the city at a place call Golgotha [skull] or at Calvary [skull]. Nevertheless, all are true. But it only appears there is conflict until the light behind the symbol is revealed.

Therefore I come from the light as a child of the Father of lights.

It is as Jonah commanded his thoughts [men in the ship] to throw Me overboard!

Jonah 1:15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.

A trust is reposed and established in one who makes a use of a reed established by others. Who established that reed [canon] and what were the uses and purposes? Why did they not tell the readers of the other books that were being cited within their reed? For if other books are being cited, then what of their reed?

I sit not as judge, we can eat what we can and be satisfied.

Shalom,
MJ

Some would not conclude "doomsday suicide cultism" from the literal words; it all depends upon one's presuppositions. Further, some would also recognize that perhaps the literal and spiritual meanings co-exist and are the synergistic teachings of an omniscient Creator who meets us where we are. God knows ALL and He is not constrained by time and space, therefore he knows what will transpire literally and uses that to teach us lessons that transcend the literal happenings, not render them "unreal" or illusionary.

The books are a guide from our Creator written by the chosen few who He inspired over time. If we believe in Divine Providence, we realize there is something bigger and greater than we at work in the unseen realm and those who ask, seek and knock will not be ignored by Him. If there are texts which fundamental contradict the four Gospels regarding the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, then we must honestly acknowledge that and choose whom we shall serve. As for me and my house...

[george]

If there are texts which fundamental contradict the four Gospels regarding the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, then we must honestly acknowledge that and choose whom we shall serve. As for me and my house...

those choices may not be so limited though (as in this or that) thats why I like to see why others have made their choice, or why they "express trust"

recently there has been a resurgence of the flat earth thinkers, I lack trust almost completely it seems so Ive been looking at their data and you know what, some of it actually adds up!

expressing trust seems pretty easy compared to expressing dis-trust. it is a good way to find out who is truly forgiving and genuinely honest though, I think. not very enjoyable way to be (distrustful) though, I can say that with confidence if nothing else.

[Michael Joseph]

Some would not conclude "doomsday suicide cultism" from the literal words; it all depends upon one's presuppositions. Further, some would also recognize that perhaps the literal and spiritual meanings co-exist and are the synergistic teachings of an omniscient Creator who meets us where we are. God knows ALL and He is not constrained by time and space, therefore he knows what will transpire literally and uses that to teach us lessons that transcend the literal happenings, not render them "unreal" or illusionary.

The books are a guide from our Creator written by the chosen few who He inspired over time. If we believe in Divine Providence, we realize there is something bigger and greater than we at work in the unseen realm and those who ask, seek and knock will not be ignored by Him. If there are texts which fundamental contradict the four Gospels regarding the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, then we must honestly acknowledge that and choose whom we shall serve. As for me and my house...

Right on - THEY DO COEXIST. That is what Thomas is telling us. But when the Light is found hidden in the symbol then the small fish are thrown out and the Great Fine Fish is kept! Thusly we have TWO ears. One to hear the fleshly lower meanings and one to hear the Spiritual meaning - Light. You might say it another way - the pearl of great price.

"Bent my ear to hear the tune
and closed my eyes to see."

James_1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.



Shalom,
MJ

[xparte]

[BLBereans]

those choices may not be so limited though (as in this or that) thats why I like to see why others have made their choice, or why they "express trust"

recently there has been a resurgence of the flat earth thinkers, I lack trust almost completely it seems so Ive been looking at their data and you know what, some of it actually adds up!

expressing trust seems pretty easy compared to expressing dis-trust. it is a good way to find out who is truly forgiving and genuinely honest though, I think. not very enjoyable way to be (distrustful) though, I can say that with confidence if nothing else.

Actually, it is limited to "this or that"; there is the express trust and belief in the deity of Jesus The Christ, His birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection as told by His historically accurate and contemporary disciples, and then there is everything else. The "everything else" denies the former and it matters not what costumes they wear or what customs they practice or what claims they make; they are all from the camp of the denial of Jesus The Christ as God Incarnate. That is a fact, however, all are free to make the choice and what you choose is what you get.

Also, any "religion" that claims certain people have higher standing and/or authority over the rest of the people is rehashing the religion of the Pharisees; the synagogue of Satan.

As far as the flat earth goes; the bible was not meant to be a science book. However, the language in the scriptures is plain and the flat earth position was held until very recently, historically speaking. No one can say for 100% certain that the world is a sphere since the only "proof" are pictures and information provided to the people by those who vigorously hide and guard the facilities and research surrounding "space-travel" (Area 51?).

My take on this is study who put forth the ideas of a heliocentric model and a global (spherical) earth and what/who their affiliations were. What beliefs did they, and their cohorts, hold which resulted in these ideas being put forth so widely among "intellectuals" and then fed to the "masses". Study the aspect of who benefits from these ideas and what specific faith or belief is put in question as a result of the adoption of these ideas.

Find out the true reason why those who opposed the geocentric earth model cared so much about spreading that theory far and wide and realize the same tactic and influence was used and spread by Darwinism.

[george]

Actually, it is limited to "this or that"; there is the express trust and belief in the deity of Jesus The Christ, His birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection

i see that but speaking/writing for myself only (as much as it seems to be me anyway) cant confirm or deny at this time. I also see a claim being made here too though.

as told by His historically accurate and contemporary disciples,

it seems so but that also is another claim.

and then there is everything else. The "everything else" denies the former

yes, and this troubles me and many others I think because of how it is used as a divide and conquer tactic.

and it matters not what costumes they wear or what customs they practice or what claims they make;

but they are not actually the one(s) making the claims are they? seems to me they are (sometimes at least) trying to rebut a belief or presumption but yes, they also make claims to the contrary and so in those cases they should also bear the same burden, as all other claimants, of proof.

* thought occurs that this might have something todo with separation of church and state doctrine? hmmm..

they are all from the camp of the denial of Jesus The Christ as God Incarnate. That is a fact,

I dont think it is the same "camp" and in most cases it would seem that they are not denying any facts but only beliefs.

Also, any "religion" that claims certain people have higher standing and/or authority over the rest of the people is rehashing the religion of the Pharisees; the synagogue of Satan.

dont they all do that?

As far as the flat earth goes; the bible was not meant to be a science book. However, the language in the scriptures is plain and the flat earth position was held until very recently, historically speaking. No one can say for 100% certain that the world is a sphere since the only "proof" are pictures and information provided to the people by those who vigorously hide and guard the facilities and research surrounding "space-travel" (Area 51?).

My take on this is study who put forth the ideas of a heliocentric model and a global (spherical) earth and what/who their affiliations were. What beliefs did they, and their cohorts, hold which resulted in these ideas being put forth so widely among "intellectuals" and then fed to the "masses". Study the aspect of who benefits from these ideas and what specific faith or belief is put in question as a result of the adoption of these ideas.

Find out the true reason why those who opposed the geocentric earth model cared so much about spreading that theory far and wide and realize the same tactic and influence was used and spread by Darwinism.

this whole flat earth thing is too much, Im seeing faults on both sides. certainly something to consider and keep an open mind.

After all, should this be filed into the US Supreme Court under Rule 17.1 it could easily lead to hundreds of convicts, even confessed criminals demanding their cases be reviewed and retried because the judicial officers were defrauding their own courtrooms...

What I offer in the complaint is a quiet way around all that. After all, I appreciate the Men of Violence keeping a rein on Violent Men.

after more thought about this, if this is truly crimes in the name of justice and one has all the facts in evidence to stop this crime but chooses not to, does that not also implicate them as accessory to those same crimes? how does this "quiet way" avoid that?

I ask these things not with any ill will or intent, towards you David, only in an effort to learn. I want to be able to help myself certainly, but also my fellow man and it seems to me that a corruption of justice would be the highest crime of all crimes so if I can learn how to be a part of the solution for the greater good, I want to do that. you seem to have something here that could possibly change everything (a few things actually) but it doesnt seem to be propagating as it should. hopefully Im just missing that propagation and it is occurring.

theres probably a lot that is best not posted on the web i guess too but Ive got to at least make an honest effort to figure these things out. I am thankful for your efforts though, you have openly shared a whole lot of info that has helped many in many ways Im sure and I will continue to go over what you have made and kept available here but its much harder to piece it together without more you see.

some of these "men of violence" have become violent men, lots of them lately according to independent reports and are killing many innocent men and women. I look for way to correct this problem (metro cops gone wild) and what you present seems a way to by pass it at that level and cut it of at the root brother! no? it may not have ruined your life but it has for way too many others. it cant go on like this, it cant. NO!

well, as usual, thanks

[ohiofoiarequest]

What does it mean to express trust in Jesus?

Hopefully he will stop by and weigh in...although I hear he's been awfully busy lately mowing people's yards and blowing their loose leaves into neat little piles.

[BLBereans]

What does it mean to express trust in Jesus?

Hopefully he will stop by and weigh in...although I hear he's been awfully busy lately mowing people's yards and blowing their loose leaves into neat little piles.

I assume your comment to be both a joke and rhetorical. Not sure about the "yards and leaves" stuff though; is that supposed to be a jab at gardeners of South American descent (Hay-soos)?

[BLBereans]

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
Actually, it is limited to "this or that"; there is the express trust and belief in the deity of Jesus The Christ, His birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection

i see that but speaking/writing for myself only (as much as it seems to be me anyway) cant confirm or deny at this time. I also see a claim being made here too though.

Faith, trust and belief is not about "confirmation" without, it's confirmation within and that only comes when you ask and God determines you are ready to receive. It is different for everyone since we area all individual and unique children of God. It is a claim of faith made by choice; we were created with the freedom to choose and that makes all the difference.

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
as told by His historically accurate and contemporary disciples,

it seems so but that also is another claim.

It is. However, the more uncovering and discovery occurs, the more evidence arises of the accuracy of biblical accounts. There are countless scientists and archeologists out there to research and study if one has the inclination and desire for truth.

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
and then there is everything else. The "everything else" denies the former

yes, and this troubles me and many others I think because of how it is used as a divide and conquer tactic.

More of a unite and conquer tactic against ALL that is evil as per the original intent and message of Jesus of Nazareth. History shows He made it clear who He was/is and He was crucified for it. One either believes in Him or not; sometimes things are black and white.

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
and it matters not what costumes they wear or what customs they practice or what claims they make;

but they are not actually the one(s) making the claims are they? seems to me they are (sometimes at least) trying to rebut a belief or presumption but yes, they also make claims to the contrary and so in those cases they should also bear the same burden, as all other claimants, of proof.

* thought occurs that this might have something todo with separation of church and state doctrine? hmmm.

It all stems from the original lie in the garden; an evil polemic of the adversary against Him who created ALL things. The original "religion" of man started in Babylon which used, continued and expanded the original lie into an evil empire "hell bent" on gathering all people in rebellion against God. When God scattered them and confused their languages, each division kept a piece of the original "religion" of Babylon and the transformation into the many "religions" of man ensued. The end-time goal for the evil one(s) is to gather everyone back together and unite once again to fight THE battle against God and His anointed Son, King and High Priest - Jesus The Christ.

The supposed "separation of church and state" doctrine must be studied through the eyes and minds of the original writers of the founding documents of this nation. What was the culture and motivation behind the establishment clause and the freedom to practice religion sentiment. Was it to protect government from religion or the other way around? When one studies the reasons why they left England and desired to become separate from the King's rule, the answer is clear.

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
they are all from the camp of the denial of Jesus The Christ as God Incarnate. That is a fact,

I dont think it is the same "camp" and in most cases it would seem that they are not denying any facts but only beliefs.

A denial is a denial. One either believes Jesus was/is who He is or not. The "That is a fact" comment is regarding the denial, not any provable fact regarding Jesus' nature which can only come by faith and trust in God.

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
Also, any "religion" that claims certain people have higher standing and/or authority over the rest of the people is rehashing the religion of the Pharisees; the synagogue of Satan.

dont they all do that?

Mostly, yes. However, the true teachings of Jesus makes it clear that we are all saints and we are all of equal value in the Body even though we may have different talents and purposes in this life. There is a respect for "elders" as experience and wisdom should be honored and acknowledged, but that is just common sense isn't it? The office of Pastor, Minister, Priest, Reverand, etc in the modern era are all remnants of the Roman civil rule and hierarchy system.

Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans
As far as the flat earth goes; the bible was not meant to be a science book. However, the language in the scriptures is plain and the flat earth position was held until very recently, historically speaking. No one can say for 100% certain that the world is a sphere since the only "proof" are pictures and information provided to the people by those who vigorously hide and guard the facilities and research surrounding "space-travel" (Area 51?).

My take on this is study who put forth the ideas of a heliocentric model and a global (spherical) earth and what/who their affiliations were. What beliefs did they, and their cohorts, hold which resulted in these ideas being put forth so widely among "intellectuals" and then fed to the "masses". Study the aspect of who benefits from these ideas and what specific faith or belief is put in question as a result of the adoption of these ideas.

Find out the true reason why those who opposed the geocentric earth model cared so much about spreading that theory far and wide and realize the same tactic and influence was used and spread by Darwinism.

this whole flat earth thing is too much, Im seeing faults on both sides. certainly something to consider and keep an open mind.

Yes, it is too much. The eye test usually tells the story though. Do you really think that both you, I and the whole earth are spinning so rapidly and constantly at all times that you just can't feel it?

[BLBereans]

Right on - THEY DO COEXIST. That is what Thomas is telling us. But when the Light is found hidden in the symbol then the small fish are thrown out and the Great Fine Fish is kept! Thusly we have TWO ears. One to hear the fleshly lower meanings and one to hear the Spiritual meaning - Light. You might say it another way - the pearl of great price.

"Bent my ear to hear the tune
and closed my eyes to see."

James_1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.



Shalom,
MJ

I can agree with that insofar as the Creator/creation model is not discarded. In other words, the higher meaning in NO way diminishes the relevance, realness and goodness of matter; the tangible earth and everything created in it.

This age and existence is in a fallen state due to the express trust given to the adversary by Eve and the first Adam. The resulting separation and expulsion from His intimate communion with them caused sin to enter the entire world through them and, therefore, making it inevitable for all of us. We do not inherit their own personal sin, however, our tendency toward sinning became exponentially greater and our ability to live out our lives without committing sin is impossible due to the separation and expulsion caused by the original sin.

That is why it was necessary for God to incarnate as Jesus The Christ in order to redeem us from said sin and save us from the wages of sin - death. He is the only man to live a perfect life completely absent of sin. He therefore took the burden of everyone's sin upon His shoulders to "buy us back". The value of His life more than made up for the sins of the entire world and that offer cannot be refused in honor and good faith. That is why the Adversary continues to accuse God's children while at the same time deceiving them/us and hiding the truth from them/us. That tactic is no match for a true believer as the power of God conquers ALL and we can wield that power by choosing to believe.

[george]

BLBereans, thanks for taking the time and the effort to converse here with me/us about these things in such an honorable way.

What does it mean to express trust in Jesus?

Hopefully he will stop by and weigh in...although I hear he's been awfully busy lately mowing people's yards and blowing their loose leaves into neat little piles.

good question. but for some reason I was expecting more from you, not less.. I guess it means there is a trust there and that it can be honored. dishonored, or be given more consideration. dishonor doesnt seem reasonable to me though nor does a lack of consideration.

what do you think it means?

[Michael Joseph]

what do you think it means?

Consider that if one truly trusts then one will obey. Jesus says - why call me Lord and do no that which I command? Thusly a trust reposed is a confidence vested in another. Therefore it is a belief a faith vested.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

G4100 - pisteuo?

From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrustcommit (to trust), put in trust with.


One expresses one's trust in word and in deed. I express in writing or in speech - DECLARATION OF TRUST. Then I do a deed which is Executory in its nature and which expresses and implies my original intent.

And God said
And God saw
And God named

Thusly was a Vineyard planted and let out to Husbandmen [trustees] with the goal of bringing forth "good fruit".

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

We see just below the crown, Wisdom and Understanding but understanding is functioned upon Knowledge. Thusly we return to trust for how shall we obtain true knowledge with limited senses? Is not our understanding merely a cistern upon which we learn to lean? How then shall we trust upon such limited knowing?

Whereof is the intuition granted of God?

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter walked and talked with Jesus and we see him denying THE WORD three times before the end of the age [cock crowing]. But look at Paul who never met Jesus - Paul is not a literalist. Paul speaks of Christ forming in a man. Thusly Declare Thyself and then let your words match your deeds.

For the beginning of things is Faith, but then there is Love which leads to proper works. And the woman is saved in childbirth. For she is given TWO great wings = O.T. and N.T. whereof she flies into the Wilderness - but we are not of the world but must remain in the world for Moses upon enlightenment walked back down the Mountain but the people in their lusts of their flesh could not hear the Spiritual Man.

Barnabas 10:3
Accordingly he mentioned the swine with this intent. Thou shalt not cleave, saith he, to such men who are like unto swine; that is, when they are in luxury they forget the Lord, but when they are in want they recognize the Lord, just as the swine when it eateth knoweth not his lord, but when it is hungry it crieth out, and when it has received food again it is silent.

Barnabas 10:4
Neither shalt thou eat eagle nor falcon nor kite nor crow. Thou shalt not, He saith, cleave unto, or be likened to, such men who know not how to provide food for themselves by toil and sweat, but in their lawlessness seize what belongeth to others, and as if they were walking in guilelessness watch and search about for some one to rob in their rapacity, just as these birds alone do not provide food for themselves, but sit idle and seek how they may eat the meat that belongeth to others, being pestilent in their evil-doings.

Barnabas 10:11
Again Moses saith; Ye shall eat of everything that divideth the hoof and cheweth the cud. What meaneth he? He that receiveth the food knoweth Him that giveth him the food, and being refreshed appeareth to rejoice in him. Well said he, having regard to the commandment. What then meaneth he? Cleave unto those that revere the Lord, with those who meditate in their heart on the distinction of the word which they have received, with those who tell of the ordinances of the Lord and keep them, with those who know that meditation is a work of gladness and who chew the cud of the word of the Lord. But why that which divideth the hoof? Because the righteous man both walketh in this world, and at the same time looketh for the holy world to come. Ye see how wise a lawgiver Moses was.

Barnabas 10:12
But whence should they perceive or understand these things? Howbeit we having justly perceived the commandments tell them as the Lord willed. To this end He circumcised our ears and hearts, that we might understand these things.

=====================

The planter of the vineyard can appoint himself as Husbandman.

Gen 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

Oh the depths of the Scriptures! But in regard to intuition : And Enoch walked with God....

Best Regards,
MJ

P.S.

Barnabas 2:7 And He saith again unto them; Did command your fathers when they went forth from the land of Egypt to bring Me whole burnt offerings and sacrifices?

Barnabas 2:8 Nay, this was My command unto them, Let none of you bear a grudge of evil against his neighbor in his heart, and love you not a false oath

Barnabas 3:3 But unto us He saith; Behold, this is the fast which I have chosen, saith the Lord; loosen every band of wickedness, untie the tightened cords of forcible contracts, send away the broken ones released and tear in pieces every unjust bond. Break thy bread to the hungry, and if thou seest one naked clothe him; bring the shelterless into thy house, and if thou seest a humble man, thou shalt not despise him, neither shall any one of thy household and of thine own seed.

=======

From the Secret Book of James

Jesus speaking:



Comment: James the Righteous [or Just] is where Jesus said to go:

James is the instrument of the Mind which is built up by soul-qualities through aspiration and enlightenment. He signifies Air (Mind).

=======

From Gospel of Thomas:

53) His disciples said to him, is (Physical) circumcision beneficial or not? He said to them, If it were beneficial, their Father (The light within the image of the flesh) would beget them already circumcised (In the flesh) from their (Fleshly) mother (Physical, surface-level teaching, traditions, etcetera). Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become (Over process of time) completely profitable (Such that we can now transcend the fleshly teaching).

[ohiofoiarequest]

[pumpkin]

"The mere existence of a confidential relationship prohibits the dominant party from seeking any selfish benefit."

It will take much more than a 'mere existence'.