Say Goodbye to Property Taxes?

[Treefarmer]

They do. David Wilbur Johnson has good information on this.

I would study both land patents and land grants.

Do you have any links for that?

[Mark Christopher]

I believe it to be. Your land, now on the property tax roles, has public debts and obligations attached thereto. Those may need to be discharged before seeking removal.

Your land is collateral for the commercial paper issued by the State. The county is a public corporation established in part to collect revenues for its lord (the State).

Hey Shikamaru, I am following the tax trail to the beginning. It all started with a lien when the place was bought with Fed credit. Now it is a magical lien as far as I can tell. Why? because it exists in minds but not on paper. I have been quoted statutes and laws from the town attorney but for some reason when I ask for a certified copy of the original signed by the tax assessor I received no response. Now I went into the township hall and filled out a request form for a copy of the lien. When they called me to let me know it was ready there was no lien in the package only a sales certificate for taxes I did not pay (they sold the taxes and created another lien). Hmm...I see why that original lien is not so easy to aquire and they don't even acknowledge it (but the insurance company did on the original policy).

[David Merrill]

Hey Shikamaru, I am following the tax trail to the beginning. It all started with a lien when the place was bought with Fed credit. Now it is a magical lien as far as I can tell. Why? because it exists in minds but not on paper. I have been quoted statutes and laws from the town attorney but for some reason when I ask for a certified copy of the original signed by the tax assessor I received no response. Now I went into the township hall and filled out a request form for a copy of the lien. When they called me to let me know it was ready there was no lien in the package only a sales certificate for taxes I did not pay (they sold the taxes and created another lien). Hmm...I see why that original lien is not so easy to aquire and they don't even acknowledge it (but the insurance company did on the original policy).

That is the kind of research that makes this website great!

[shikamaru]

Hey Shikamaru, I am following the tax trail to the beginning. It all started with a lien when the place was bought with Fed credit. Now it is a magical lien as far as I can tell. Why? because it exists in minds but not on paper. I have been quoted statutes and laws from the town attorney but for some reason when I ask for a certified copy of the original signed by the tax assessor I received no response. Now I went into the township hall and filled out a request form for a copy of the lien. When they called me to let me know it was ready there was no lien in the package only a sales certificate for taxes I did not pay (they sold the taxes and created another lien). Hmm...I see why that original lien is not so easy to aquire and they don't even acknowledge it (but the insurance company did on the original policy).

That is interesting.

A lien is a security interest. It essentially is a holding of who gets paid first, next, and so on.
Liens are removed upon satisfaction and closure of a debt.

You should be able to find out what bonds are attached to your land too. This information is available online.
The bonds and liens will need to be satisfied before you can "close the account" i.e. remove the home from registration.

Homes are treated like investments. Deeds act as a type of commercial paper. Multiple parties have an interest in the "investment". There is a hierarchy of who gets paid first in the event of bankruptcy (liquidation).

The home "owner" has an equity position in the home. The "owner" gets paid last in the event of liquidation. The "owner" also has the burden of maintenance and upkeep. Banks, governments, and insurance companies derive profit off of the "investment". Those entities income is from "dividends".

THIS is why your position in a house is called EQUITY and banks are always keen on selling you home EQUITY loans .....

When you ain't borrowing against your house, they don't make dividends.

The home is registered .... like a security i.e. like a financial instrument.
The home is insured ... like some securities.


There is an art to asking from auricular requests to using the courts (writs) to bring the rain .

[shikamaru]

Do you have any links for that?

BAM!

http://freedom-school.com/private-property-rights.html

[shikamaru]

the civil war was not about freeing the slaves in the south,
it was about taking the allodial title farm land away from the confederation to be used as surety for the union's debt,

Can you explain why then Vice-President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, had this to say in his Cornerstone Speech?

This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution

So, secession by the South was due, in part, to preservation of slavery and thus precipitating the Civil War.

In light of this, how was the Civil War not about freeing the "slaves"?

....they possessed perfect title to the land before the war

Land, at best, was held as a freehold. The land was taxed in every State as well.

[walter]

A LETTER FROM PRESIDENT LINCOLN.; Reply to Horace Greeley. Slavery and the Union The Restoration of the Union the Paramount Object.
Published: August 24, 1862


WASHINGTON, Aug. 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:

DEAR SIR: I have just read yours of the 19th, addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements or assumptions of fact which I may know to be erroneous, I do not now and here controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here argue against them. If there be perceptible in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing," as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time save Slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy Slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views. I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty, and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men, everywhere, could be free. Yours,

A. LINCOLN.



the civil war was about saving the union and nothing else,
so the question is why did he want to save the union?

[walter]

It all started with a lien when the place was bought with Fed credit.

so then if gold or silver was used to buy the land then there would be no lien?
gold and silver backed the green back until 1933 no?
if so then any land bought pre 1933 would not have to pay tax's, but they did have to pay tax's,
i am i missing something here?

[Treefarmer]

BAM!

http://freedom-school.com/private-property-rights.html

Thank you very much.
That will take some time to check out...

[shikamaru]

the civil war was about saving the union and nothing else,
so the question is why did he want to save the union?

Incorrect.
Saving the union was a component of it, but so was slavery.

I'm not sure if you know how deeply slavery has affected the very nature and development of the United States. It had deep impact on representation, taxation, law, and more still with us today.
It seems to me you are seeking to reduce the importance of slavery and its effect on the United States.

The North was was made up of mercantalists as well as workers. Those workers did not want competition from slaves; therefore in light of this, it makes sense why the North would outlaw slavery. It is always about economics, assets, and the goodies.

It is simple why he wanted to save the union: tax revenues and outstanding obligations of the political corporation.

By the by, could you cite that letter you posted?

[shikamaru]

so then if gold or silver was used to buy the land then there would be no lien?

Liens come about from taxation or borrowing money with some property pledged as collateral for a loan.

gold and silver backed the green back until 1933 no?

Silver was demonitized as a standard of payment in 1873.
Gold was demonitized as a standard of payment and removed from circulating currency in 1933.
Silver was removed from circulating currency beginning in 1964.

if so then any land bought pre 1933 would not have to pay tax's, but they did have to pay tax's,
i am i missing something here?

It is the registration of the land that gets you as far as property taxes go.

[Keith Alan]

I used to have a Cherokee friend in Oklahoma who had an original land patent on 160 acres. Sometime during the 30's, (I don't remember the exact date) one of his ancestors mortgaged 80 acres, and subsequently paid it off over the course of years. He still received a tax notice on the mortgaged 80 acres every year, but the first un-mortgaged 80 acre parcel was not taxable. I saw all his records about 15 years ago, and the original patent was still intact at that time.

Just an interesting sidenote to the thread.

[shikamaru]

I used to have a Cherokee friend in Oklahoma who had an original land patent on 160 acres. Sometime during the 30's, (I don't remember the exact date) one of his ancestors mortgaged 80 acres, and subsequently paid it off over the course of years. He still received a tax notice on the mortgaged 80 acres every year, but the first un-mortgaged 80 acre parcel was not taxable. I saw all his records about 15 years ago, and the original patent was still intact at that time.

Just an interesting sidenote to the thread.

And that 80 acres was registered.

When you register, you grant the public corporation an interest in the res.
In fact, it may be a gift followed by a gifting back....

Remember the whole episode of King John and Pope Innocent III?

[Keith Alan]

And that 80 acres was registered.

When you register, you grant the public corporation an interest in the res.
In fact, it may be a gift followed by a gifting back....

Remember the whole episode of King John and Pope Innocent III?

No, I don't remember that. I'd like to hear about it though.

Regarding his patent, there were certain terms and conditions that ran with the land, so it wasn't allodial title. One of the conditions was to never rebel or engage in insurrection against the United States. I don't remember the exact words, but they were to that effect.

[shikamaru]

No, I don't remember that. I'd like to hear about it though.

King John was having it out with Pope Innocent III.
Innocent III excommunicated King John from the Roman Catholic Church, hereto after referred to as RCC.

After some back and forth, King John turns over his lands and crown to the Pope only to have the Pope (or rather his legate) convey them back with stipulations and a rent charge.

Regarding his patent, there were certain terms and conditions that ran with the land, so it wasn't allodial title. One of the conditions was to never rebel or engage in insurrection against the United States. I don't remember the exact words, but they were to that effect.

I can live with that. So long as there are no property taxes, I am good.

Patents are a form of conveyance from the sovereign whether king or government. Patents are a form of writ.