county recording/registering - nature of grant of instrument to county, state, etc.

[andrew patrick]

this topic has been on my mind recently and i still don't have closure.

when we 'record' and/or 'register' an instrument with the county recorder and/or register/registrar, is there an assumption that we are granting the instrument and the substance thereof to the county and/or state and/or "United States"?"

it seems to me that all such recordings/registrations are grants in trust, but absent any express intent to the contrary, are we not granting the county/state/'U. S." right at title to said instrument/substance on general deposit? does county/state/"U. S." then assume beneficiary interest therein, whereas the grantor is deemed to accept trusteeship?

love, peace and life to you all...

[ag maniac]

Put a legal notice in a newspaper of general circulation, have the publisher of that notice give one a notarized statement that it was placed in his newspaper, have the county recorder record the same and provide a certified copy of the record does constitute a public record.

You retain the original & make available for inspection upon written request

[EZrhythm]

Open web page publishing also constitutes a public record.

[andrew patrick]

creating a public record not the issue at hand - assignment of interest is

Open web page publishing also constitutes a public record.

many thanks ag maniac and EZrhythm for the responses, however i was looking to initiate a discussion of the nature of any recording/registration and not how to go about doing it.

again, i appreciate the data provided.

love, peace and life to all...

[ag maniac]

Andrew....the only way to win is don't play....that way the presumptions don't have a chance to take hold.

[lorne]

from Black's Law

[andrew patrick]

many thanks for the contributions to the discussions posted, brothers.

i don't quite know what to make of the 'cloture'/'closure' reference, nor what precisely the suggestion of 'not playing' refers to.

is one suggesting not to record or register any instruments with any (de jure, de facto, etcetera) entity?

love, peace and life to you all...

[andrew patrick]

the black's law dictionary reference may have been to the 'cloud on title' entry...

peace...

[BLBereans]

this topic has been on my mind recently and i still don't have closure.

when we 'record' and/or 'register' an instrument with the county recorder and/or register/registrar, is there an assumption that we are granting the instrument and the substance thereof to the county and/or state and/or "United States"?"

it seems to me that all such recordings/registrations are grants in trust, but absent any express intent to the contrary, are we not granting the county/state/'U. S." right at title to said instrument/substance on general deposit? does county/state/"U. S." then assume beneficiary interest therein, whereas the grantor is deemed to accept trusteeship?

love, peace and life to you all...

In my opinion, the county courthouse is a public building and the clerk is available, and obligated, to serve the public. The public is the collection of people who live and operate near the area and you have right of access to that building, and service from the clerk, as anyone else.

The issue is that the courtrooms in the building are always "booked solid" by members of the BAR who have mostly monopolized the time in that building. The obvious reason why that is welcomed and accommodated so enthusiastically, is that the members of the BAR generate tons of "money" for the county; they give the county plenty of business. That doesn't mean you are not allowed access to the court, it just means you have to find the few available time slots in order to conduct your affairs when necessary.

Now, as it pertains to recording instruments: I do not believe there is ANY claim of interest in your property simply because you decide to make a public record. The verbiage on your instrument dictates your claim; it is YOUR deed (act) and the original instrument gets sent back to you; it is YOUR property. The county clerk is the holder of the public record and only has a copy of your original which can be used to issue "certified" copies of your original instrument.

Think about that for a moment as it applies to "CERTIFICATE OF TITLE" for a car or the "CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH". Who holds the original? The holder of the original is the one who claims primary, and/or sole, interest in the property.

In my opinion, "registration" is a whole other animal; I believe that is tantamount to begging or petitioning the STATE for recognition of something.

[pumpkin]

"In my opinion, the county courthouse is a public building and the clerk is available, and obligated, to serve the public."

I completely agree with this. The duties and obligations are upon the public servant, they are the trustee of the public trust. I have been fighting property taxation for some time now. What I have found, and what I believe is this. When they come against you to forcibly collect the tax, they have no case. The have no claim. Actually in my State, the statute specifically states 'in summary manner, without pleadings'. A claim is a pleading. Without pleadings is without a claim. Without a claim, there is no jurisdiction of the court to act. But, since someone will allow a case without pleadings (and or judgment) to stand against him, it, IMO, is considered an agreed case. IMO, that is the consent. The courts here have even held, 'no case can find lodging within the courts of this State, without pleadings or the statutorily required affidavit for an agreed case' (paraphrased but close)'. Some later case even took the affidavit requirement to be from 'one of the parties'. Here, the treasurer and auditor 'enter into an agreement' to bring the case. Interesting, ain't it?

[walter]

In my opinion, the county courthouse is a public building and the clerk is available, and obligated, to serve the public. The public is the collection of people who live and operate near the area and you have right of access to that building, and service from the clerk, as anyone else.

I don't agree.
It is a private building.
Whom did the clerk swear the oath to?
The public is a collection of persons.

[pumpkin]

"I don't agree.
It is a private building.
Whom did the clerk swear the oath to?
The public is a collection of persons."

They exorcise the power to tax. That is a governmental power. With that power comes all its duties, obligations and restrictions.

[BLBereans]

I don't agree.
It is a private building.
Whom did the clerk swear the oath to?
The public is a collection of persons.

A good idea would be to get it right from the "horse's mouth"; why not ask the local clerk?

Write a simple letter with short simple questions, like:

Is the building where you operate as clerk a public or private building?

In order to "swear", and have any meaning or value behind it, one must do so appealing to a higher authority. Any meaningful oath is sworn to God.

The clerk has many duties, but most of all, it is to be the keeper, holder and authenticator of the public record.

The word person can be defined in any number of ways. People have a right to be secure in their papers and their persons without interference. Any clerk who swore an oath is bound to not interfere with such rights.

The main purpose of those who hold office in "government" is to secure, protect and restore property. Rights are property.

[andrew patrick]

many thanks for the input, men.

love, peace and life to all...

[allodial]

It might be that registration results in: 1 - the documents becoming public domain except for redacted portions; 2 - if you register property that is the subject of the document as being "in the State" then it will result in the property being deemed to be in the State along with associated consequences.