Citizenship defined lost in translation.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • motla68
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 752

    #1

    Citizenship defined lost in translation.

    "Title 8, Section 1401 of the U.S. Code defines a national and citizen of the United States "at birth". Note that this legal definition does not include the phrase "natural born."

    * a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; "

    So then can one be born here and NOT subject to the jurisdiction thereof?
    Lets investigate some.


    " The 2008 Florida Statutes

    Title XXIX PUBLIC HEALTH Chapter 382 VITAL STATISTICS View Entire Chapter
    382.013 Birth registration.--A certificate for each live birth that occurs in this state shall be filed within 5 days after such birth with the local registrar of the district in which the birth occurred and shall be registered by the local registrar if the certificate has been completed and filed in accordance with this chapter and adopted rules. The information regarding registered births shall be used for comparison with information in the state case registry, as defined in chapter 61. (1) FILING.-- (a) If a birth occurs in a hospital, birth center, or other health care facility, or en route thereto, the person in charge of the facility shall be responsible for preparing the certificate, certifying the facts of the birth, and filing the certificate with the local registrar. Within 48 hours after the birth, the physician, midwife, or person in attendance during or immediately after the delivery shall provide the facility with the medical information required by the birth certificate.
    (e) The mother or the father of the child shall attestwitnessing an instrument of writing, at the request of the party making the same, and subscribing it as a witness. 3 P. Wms. 254 2 Ves. 454 1 Ves. & B. 362;3 Marsh. 146; 3 Bibb. 494; 17 Pick. 373."

    Summarizing what we have here so far:

    - The registrar registers

    - The person of the facility files

    - parents are witnesses

    Can you see here now that it was not the parents who registered nor filed for a Certificate of Live Birth?
    A woman in our local group here is a nurse who had worked in a county hospital in a birthing center and she said now after the application data is entered in by staff to a computer that sendi the information electronically to the the state, the application itself is then shredded and thrown away.

    Continuing on the Certificate of Live Birth was never meant to be used as identification purposes,
    but we acting in a belligerent manner did it anyway using as identification to get other government owned identification, Thus subjecating ourselves to the jurisdiction thereof.

    There is a couple court cases floating around out there stating that the COLB/BC is not to be used as identification, I will add those in here when I can find them again, in the mean time check out this video and listen to just the first 1 minute of it at least: ( 1 minute is not a whole lot at all considering how many minutes you stare at your screen in a day )



    So you should be able to get some clarity of why I would backtrack to see where we went wrong.
    Is it unlawful to be born? If not then should we have a unalienable "natural" right to live without statutory justification accepting such a thing as a benefit?
    "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
    be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

    ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.
  • shikamaru
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 1630

    #2
    The birth certificate serves to incorporate the child into the body corporate of the United States and of the State.
    The body politic would be the legislature, judiciary, and executive branches of government.

    The body corporate and body politic together is government. Government would not be much without subjects whether persons or property to govern .

    The birth certificate is evidence of citizenship.

    I had a nice thread at ol' SJC2 on my theory titled "Incorporation Theory". A person can be brought into a body through some formal method such as a ceremony or document. A person can be invested (robed) with a quality.

    I need to make a short treatise out of it sometime.

    This "Incorporation Theory" came to me from book titled, "The King's Two Bodies". The King was obviously a physical human being, but was also vested (robed) with the powers of Sovereignty and Kingship as well as being the body politic of the nation. The subjects form the body corporate.

    Another subject worthy of deeper study is 'investiture'.
    Last edited by shikamaru; 03-20-11, 01:39 PM.

    Comment

    • motla68
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2011
      • 752

      #3
      Originally posted by shikamaru View Post
      The birth certificate serves to incorporate the child into the body corporate of the United States and of the State.
      The body politic would be the legislature, judiciary, and executive branches of government.

      The body corporate and body politic together is government. Government would not be much without subjects whether persons or property to govern .

      The birth certificate is evidence of citizenship.

      I had a nice thread at ol' SJC2 on my theory titled "Incorporation Theory". A person can be brought into a body through some formal method such as a ceremony or document. A person can be invested (robed) with a quality.

      I need to make a short treatise out of it sometime.

      This "Incorporation Theory" came to me from book titled, "The King's Two Bodies". The King was obviously a physical human being, but was also vested (robed) with the powers of Sovereignty and Kingship as well as being the body politic of the nation. The subjects form the body corporate.

      Another subject worthy of deeper study is 'investiture'.
      Through my research and study the past couple of years I have found this to be nothing but patriot banter with no backing. Nowhere on the COLB or BC does it say anything about citizenship. A couple court cases have shown that the COLB/BC was not to be used for identification purposes, yet we did it anyway by going out and getting social security cards,
      voters cards and drivers license, this is when we have put are mark on a document under penalties of purjury that the " name " on that original document was a U.S. Person.
      We basically testified against the name which we were not to do and this is what the moo ha is about when people talk about enslavement,
      look in the mirror, we did it to ourselves.

      "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
      be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

      ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

      Comment

      • shikamaru
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2011
        • 1630

        #4
        Originally posted by motla68 View Post
        Through my research and study the past couple of years I have found this to be nothing but patriot banter with no backing. Nowhere on the COLB or BC does it say anything about citizenship.
        Your research on this point is flawed. No disrespect to you as a being.

        This has nothing to do with patriot banter and everything to do with public corporate customs, historical law, and jurisprudence.

        How about we take it straight from the horses mouth: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00b92ca60aRCRD

        Proof of U.S. Citizenship and Identification When Applying for a Job

        Your U.S. passport is your best proof of U.S. citizenship. Other official documents can be used, as described below.

        Are you a citizen born in the United States?

        Your birth certificate provides proof of citizenship. If you need a copy of your birth certificate, contact the Bureau of Vital Statistics in the State in which you were born. We do not issue any kind of citizenship document to a person who is a citizen by birth in the United States.
        There are court cases affirming and reiterating my point above, but it is overkill at this point.

        Originally posted by motla68
        A couple court cases have shown that the COLB/BC was not to be used for identification purposes, ...
        My point spoke upon citizenship as well as alluding to a purpose of the birth certificate.

        Originally posted by motla68
        yet we did it anyway by going out and getting social security cards,
        voters cards and drivers license, this is when we have put are mark on a document under penalties of purjury that the " name " on that original document was a U.S. Person.
        We basically testified against the name which we were not to do and this is what the moo ha is about when people talk about enslavement,
        look in the mirror, we did it to ourselves.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTckFl0jPN8
        I do agree with you that people do much to enslave themselves by their own hand and mouth as anything.

        Perhaps you would like to reconsider the "Incorporation Theory"?

        Allow me to restate that the birth certificate takes a human baby child into a political society and its resultant body corporate.

        In this case, there are two political societies we are speaking upon: these United States as well as the several (individual) states (nations).
        We should review such terms of body politic, body corporate, and incorporate.

        Certificates, licenses, permits, identification, and the like all have to do with the law of evidence as well.
        Last edited by shikamaru; 03-20-11, 03:03 PM.

        Comment

        • motla68
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 752

          #5
          Originally posted by shikamaru View Post
          Your research on this point is flawed. No disrespect to you as a being.

          How about we take it straight from the horses mouth: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00b92ca60aRCRD



          There are court cases affirming and reiterating my point above, but it is overkill at this point.



          My point spoke upon citizenship as well as alluding to a purpose of the birth certificate.



          I do agree with you that people do much to enslave themselves by their own hand and mouth as anything.

          Perhaps you would like to reconsider the "Incorporation Theory"?

          Allow me to restate that the birth certificate takes a human baby child into a political society, a body corporate.

          In this case, there are two political societies we are speaking upon: these United States as well as the several (individual) states (nations).
          We should review such terms of body politic, body corporate, and incorporate as well.

          Certificates, licenses, permits, identification, and the like all have to do with the law of evidence as well.
          Thanks for such a quick response and explanation.

          What you have shown me here though is Public opinion, not the law. We both should know by now even the IRS prints out brochures and other such notices which are taken out of context and do not show the law in it's entirety which is an intentional bias I believe. Through an employer I worked for had spoken to their corporate attorney, after explaining some of my positions to exemptions of withholding and what I just mentioned. He said that he understood and agreed with my position, but warned me the powers that be might not like it. This was labelled as a "non-exempt" position when I applied, I made some statements on the paperwork which triggered HR to contact me and I immediately asked to speak with their corporate attorney.
          I worked their 6 years and most of the withholding was exempted the entire time. The only thing taken out was medicare in which he showed me the statute that said they had to take it out,
          not even state taxes were taken out.
          If that is not right from the horses mouth, not sure what is, however this conversation was not recorded, all I can do is when I get something worked out for a scanner then I will post up the paystub so you can see it for yourself.
          "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
          be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

          ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

          Comment

          • shikamaru
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 1630

            #6
            Originally posted by motla68 View Post
            What you have shown me here though is Public opinion, not the law. We both should know by now even the IRS prints out brochures and other such notices which are taken out of context and do not show the law in it's entirety which is an intentional bias I believe.
            This is a partial error.

            There are three aspects of "law" if you will: written, spoken, and enforced. The aforementioned is courtesy of Lord Edward Coke.
            I did stipulate that there are court cases affirming what I have just given you. These court cases (case "law") serve as the "spoken" form of law.

            There are other government websites stipulating the same conclusion: that a birth certificate serves as PROOF of citizenship. If requested, I will dig for those court cases.
            There is a strong administrative law aspect to all of this.

            The concept of identification will parallel and run through birth certificates as well.

            Perhaps it would help to give my perspective on how I research?
            Last edited by shikamaru; 03-20-11, 03:25 PM.

            Comment

            • shikamaru
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2011
              • 1630

              #7
              As to the title of this thread, citizen means subject.
              This definition of citizen as subject comes to us from English Common Law most particularly from the 14th century onward.
              The concept of citizenship goes all the way back to the Greek and Roman empires.

              Civilian can also mean a teacher, professor, student, or practitioner of Roman Civil Law. I found this definition while reading through a treatise on Admiralty Law.
              Last edited by shikamaru; 03-20-11, 03:38 PM.

              Comment

              • motla68
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2011
                • 752

                #8
                Originally posted by shikamaru View Post
                This is a partial error.

                There are three aspects of "law" if you will: written, spoken, and enforced. The aforementioned is courtesy of Lord Edward Coke.
                I did stipulate that there are court cases affirming what I have just given you. These court cases (case "law") serve as the "spoken" form of law.

                There are other government websites stipulating the same conclusion: that a birth certificate serves as PROOF of citizenship. If requested, I will dig for those court cases.
                There is a strong administrative law aspect to all of this.

                The concept of identification will parallel and run through birth certificates as well.

                Perhaps it would help to give my perspective on how I research?
                I do admit in backing up your previous statement about the matrimony part I can see your point though:

                HEIR. "One born in lawful matrimony"
                - 1856 Bouviers Dictionary

                What makes it lawful? Because of the "unilateral agreement" between parent-persons and state-persons or even recording in the bible between the parents because you only need 2 or more witnesses correct?
                Never the less it is a recorded event in which a piece of paper describes a baby, but we are no longer babies, have we not grown into adults capable of accepting the position as Son and Heir?
                "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
                be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

                ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

                Comment

                • shikamaru
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 1630

                  #9
                  Originally posted by motla68 View Post
                  I do admit in backing up your previous statement about the matrimony part I can see your point though:

                  HEIR. "One born in lawful matrimony"
                  - 1856 Bouviers Dictionary
                  I made no statements concerning matrimony, however there are important connections between marriage and the State particularly for those who have availed themselves of a marriage license.

                  Originally posted by motla68
                  What makes it lawful? Because of the "unilateral agreement" between parent-persons and state-persons or even recording in the bible between the parents because you only need 2 or more witnesses correct?
                  Never the less it is a recorded event in which a piece of paper describes a baby, but we are no longer babies, have we not grown into adults capable of accepting the position as Son and Heir?
                  There are many definitions concerning the term law. So the question, "What is law?" is an excellent question although a deep and complicated one.

                  One definition that I like is that the Sovereign is not subject to the law, but is the author and source of it.
                  Law, in one sense, is will. Will of the political power holder. In most countries, this political power holder will take the form of a monarchy. In others, it will be a republic of one form or another.
                  Law, in another definition, is a rule with a penalty.

                  Both Lord Edward Coke and Lord William Blackstone have excellent writings concerning their opinion on Law and English Common Law.

                  In a completely different context, you are correct. Law can be an agreement between parties.
                  There is the maxim, "Contract makes the law ...."
                  The above is why the freedom to contract is a most dangerous freedom in deed. Powerful enough to make a servant out of a freeman. This happens everyday for most with employment, applications, licenses, permits, and more.

                  Comment

                  • motla68
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 752

                    #10
                    Some updated details about signing authority for the name, keep in mind this is just updates of our progress, cannot prove anything yet as we have not tried to use it anywhere yet:

                    In the Canadian Vital Statistics Act
                    http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/sta...1990-c-v4.html

                    Admissibility of certificates, etc.

                    46. (1) A certificate purporting to be issued under section 44 or a certified copy of a registration purporting to be issued under section 45 signed by the Registrar General or Deputy Registrar General or on which the signature of either of them is reproduced by any method is admissible in any court in Ontario as proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of the facts so certified, and it is not necessary to prove the signature or official position of the person by whom the certificate or certified copy purports to be signed.

                    The following notation is from a local Coresource study group member in reference to the above:
                    ===================
                    On another note...
                    I have had three of the Certificates of Indemnity returned to me authenticated by the STATE OF MICHIGAN. I just received them back yesterday. The verbiage on the authentication cover document is quite interesting. The verbiage indicates that the Registrar does in fact, by action of signing/putting his/her signature to the Certificate of Live Birth, does so in and through the full faith and credit that has been granted to them in the capacity of their office. Now, where do you think this, "full faith and credit," originated?

                    This is only made possible through the presumption of the pledge made by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on behalf of the People of the Republic United States of America to the UNITED STATES, INC. bankruptcy of 1933, which became the Receiver of the Bankruptcy. I also think it is possible that this is a nexus point revealing if we have not made our intent known through expression of who we put our Trust into, but rather have allowed it to be implied it through our action(s), thus allowing for the presumption to have standing and the full force and affect of law.

                    Furthermore, I also believe that this pledge can be properly rebutted, rescinded, and revoked, ab inito, nunc pro tunc, in a peaceful manner, and this would change a lot of things. Perhaps even bring to a conclusion the conquest that needs to be complete, per Lincoln's General Orders 100. In the spirit of this, I wrote the following for another friend by inspiration to help encourage them in their time of need. I think part of what I have written herein below, could apply for just such an expression and covenant of Trust dedicated and declared for the purpose of Giving, Forgiving, and Trust in honor of Love and for the Love that Loved Us first, the foundation through which all such things are made possible.

                    > there was a separation in thought here when establishing identity in court: >

                    "Furthermore, you may consider this formal notice that I do not consent to be recognized by that name, firstly because it is not my creation and I had nothing to do with its creation, and secondly, because I do not claim to own it or be the owner of it in any fashion. Therefore, mark my words, it was never my will and intent to gift or pledge to you the energy of my life, labor, body, soul, and spirit through such an entity/creation directly or indirectly, expressed or implied.

                    Therefore, however you determine to settle this matter, is fully under the jurisdiction of your own power and authority, of which I AM determined to not interfere, for I AM a peaceful inhabitant sent of my Father who I AM one with as an Envoy to help you settle this matter honorable."

                    "Now, is there anything more that I can help you with? If there is nothing more for me to help you with, and seeing how this issue does not involve me and that you are fully capable of settling it, I will be taking my leave of you now."

                    ====================

                    There is another guy through a private group I am not in contact with in Georgia that got authentication " through the elections office " that has the same verbiage of " full faith and credit",
                    not to mention the video that had been show from canada of making the same statements about what he got.

                    The point of Authentication again was to eventually prove out that the Authenticated COLB could act as a passport here in the states as stated from Mark from canada in his video.

                    Summarize tracking of the COLB/BC:

                    - " Revenue Receipt " , linked to indemnification as stated in the Liber Code.

                    - Authenticated in the intent of " full faith and credit" mentioned in more then 1 authentication, also stated on U.S. Currency.

                    We are getting closer to the goal of proving this out that the authenticated COLB/BC standing on it's own could be used as a passport in our travels without actually having to apply for some separate passport under penalties of purjury, also as stated in the above canadian statutes that registrar generals have signing authority for the name in court room situations (passing through commerce) ' just passing through.
                    Your body (state of me) was born from the soil and it shall return to the soil when the creator says your time on this earth is up.
                    Another guy in our study group has a interesting online name in accordance to this " Dan of the Dust ".

                    Have a great day.
                    Last edited by motla68; 03-22-11, 01:45 AM.
                    "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
                    be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

                    ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

                    Comment

                    • shikamaru
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 1630

                      #11
                      This is interesting and an awesome find!


                      There is more. Check it out.

                      Comment

                      • motla68
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 752

                        #12
                        Yes, that is quite interesting, thank you.
                        "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
                        be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

                        ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

                        Comment

                        • motla68
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 752

                          #13
                          Originally posted by motla68 View Post
                          Some updated details about signing authority for the name, keep in mind this is just updates of our progress, cannot prove anything yet as we have not tried to use it anywhere yet:

                          In the Canadian Vital Statistics Act
                          http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/sta...1990-c-v4.html

                          Admissibility of certificates, etc.

                          46. (1) A certificate purporting to be issued under section 44 or a certified copy of a registration purporting to be issued under section 45 signed by the Registrar General or Deputy Registrar General or on which the signature of either of them is reproduced by any method is admissible in any court in Ontario as proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of the facts so certified, and it is not necessary to prove the signature or official position of the person by whom the certificate or certified copy purports to be signed.

                          The following notation is from a local Coresource study group member in reference to the above:
                          ===================
                          On another note...
                          I have had three of the Certificates of Indemnity returned to me authenticated by the STATE OF MICHIGAN. I just received them back yesterday. The verbiage on the authentication cover document is quite interesting. The verbiage indicates that the Registrar does in fact, by action of signing/putting his/her signature to the Certificate of Live Birth, does so in and through the full faith and credit that has been granted to them in the capacity of their office. Now, where do you think this, "full faith and credit," originated?

                          This is only made possible through the presumption of the pledge made by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on behalf of the People of the Republic United States of America to the UNITED STATES, INC. bankruptcy of 1933, which became the Receiver of the Bankruptcy. I also think it is possible that this is a nexus point revealing if we have not made our intent known through expression of who we put our Trust into, but rather have allowed it to be implied it through our action(s), thus allowing for the presumption to have standing and the full force and affect of law.

                          Furthermore, I also believe that this pledge can be properly rebutted, rescinded, and revoked, ab inito, nunc pro tunc, in a peaceful manner, and this would change a lot of things. Perhaps even bring to a conclusion the conquest that needs to be complete, per Lincoln's General Orders 100. In the spirit of this, I wrote the following for another friend by inspiration to help encourage them in their time of need. I think part of what I have written herein below, could apply for just such an expression and covenant of Trust dedicated and declared for the purpose of Giving, Forgiving, and Trust in honor of Love and for the Love that Loved Us first, the foundation through which all such things are made possible.

                          > there was a separation in thought here when establishing identity in court: >

                          "Furthermore, you may consider this formal notice that I do not consent to be recognized by that name, firstly because it is not my creation and I had nothing to do with its creation, and secondly, because I do not claim to own it or be the owner of it in any fashion. Therefore, mark my words, it was never my will and intent to gift or pledge to you the energy of my life, labor, body, soul, and spirit through such an entity/creation directly or indirectly, expressed or implied.

                          Therefore, however you determine to settle this matter, is fully under the jurisdiction of your own power and authority, of which I AM determined to not interfere, for I AM a peaceful inhabitant sent of my Father who I AM one with as an Envoy to help you settle this matter honorable."

                          "Now, is there anything more that I can help you with? If there is nothing more for me to help you with, and seeing how this issue does not involve me and that you are fully capable of settling it, I will be taking my leave of you now."

                          ====================

                          There is another guy through a private group I am not in contact with in Georgia that got authentication " through the elections office " that has the same verbiage of " full faith and credit",
                          not to mention the video that had been show from canada of making the same statements about what he got.

                          The point of Authentication again was to eventually prove out that the Authenticated COLB could act as a passport here in the states as stated from Mark from canada in his video.

                          Summarize tracking of the COLB/BC:

                          - " Revenue Receipt " , linked to indemnification as stated in the Liber Code.

                          - Authenticated in the intent of " full faith and credit" mentioned in more then 1 authentication, also stated on U.S. Currency.

                          We are getting closer to the goal of proving this out that the authenticated COLB/BC standing on it's own could be used as a passport in our travels without actually having to apply for some separate passport under penalties of purjury, also as stated in the above canadian statutes that registrar generals have signing authority for the name in court room situations (passing through commerce) ' just passing through.
                          Your body (state of me) was born from the soil and it shall return to the soil when the creator says your time on this earth is up.
                          Another guy in our study group has a interesting online name in accordance to this " Dan of the Dust ".

                          Have a great day.
                          Updating on the Authentication process, I found related information in Florida statutes associating registrar as trustee, plus more:

                          The 2010 Florida Statutes(including Special Session A)


                          Title XXXIX
                          COMMERCIAL RELATIONSChapter 678
                          UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE: INVESTMENT SECURITIES

                          678.4071 Authenticating trustee, transfer agent, and registrar.―A person acting as authenticating trustee, transfer agent, registrar, or other agent for an issuer in the registration of a transfer of its securities, in the issue of new security certificates or uncertificated securities, or in the cancellation of surrendered security certificates has the same obligation to the holder or owner of a certificated or uncertificated security with regard to the particular functions performed as the issuer has in regard to those functions.View Entire Chapter
                          History.―s. 4, ch. 98-11.


                          I just got word through the grapevine about other study groups, the same guy who got a hospital bill taken care of got a second one and another interesting event a man in Texas who's wife died over complications of a long battle with cancer and a huge hospital bill had taken a certified copy of the death certificate tendered to the window of the billing clerk via certified mail and got the whole hospital bill settle in full, he had got a letter back telling him so.
                          Unfortunately I have no direct contact with these people and since this was done in the private it has to stay in the private.
                          I got some stories about hospital bills taken care of in the past, but I do things differently these days in how to take care of them as shown similar success with vehicle taxes.
                          "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
                          be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

                          ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

                          Comment

                          • motla68
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 752

                            #14
                            You all will get some enjoyment out of this attachment, someone in our groups sent this to me, a response from a Vital Stats Office. Also shows a little proof of things I mentioned:

                            - Not to be used as identification

                            - Certificate is only proof that the original exists somewhere, the only artifact we have to go on is the seal of the one holding the original in trust.

                            There is a contradiction in this thing though, if it is not suppose to be ID then how else are you suppose to get these other documents it mentions you use it to get. Could it be they are making you an offer to contract as trustee with your high office as Heir?
                            Seems a bit of a demotion.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTckFl0jPN8

                            [ see attachment ]
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by motla68; 03-24-11, 03:38 AM.
                            "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to
                            be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

                            ~ Morpheus / The Matrix movie trilogy.

                            Comment

                            • Frederick Burrell
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 238

                              #15
                              Great Info Matla

                              So if the birth cert is not to used as Identification, does that mean a drivers license is not a valid form of Identification. How does one establish identification. I guess it would be the same as it has always been. What you claim. Frederick Burrell

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X