Is Administrative Law Lawful? (Video - Philip Hamburger)

[allodial]

[Note: The global secular humanist movement has been notable for promoting rule by unelected officials. Could there be a connection with administrative law? Is that to promote rule by administrative law? (Would you contracting with a private, foreign organization pretending to be a public, government organizations?)]

The Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) was a regulatory agency in the United States created by the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887. The agency's original purpose was to regulate railroads (and later trucking) to ensure fair rates, to eliminate rate discrimination, and to regulate other aspects of common carriers, including interstate bus lines and telephone companies. Congress expanded ICC authority to regulate other modes of commerce beginning in 1906. The agency was abolished in 1995, and its remaining functions were transferred to the Surface Transportation Board.

Regulations are not laws. So-called "administrative law" deals with regulations not laws. Regulations can be passed off as laws--if you allow it or fall for it.

Related:

• Interstate Commerce Act of 1887
• Legal Positivism
• Due Process
• Plenary Power
• Sedition By Syntax
• Unelected Commission is the Government of the European Union

[allodial]

Apparently this guy has a book on titled "Is Administrative Law Unlawful?" Didn't know that. FYI.



http://www.amazon.com/Administrative...dp/022611659X/

[allodial]

A contrary review (for balance). http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery...488724&mirid=1 (PDF via SSRN).

[Chex]

Wow. The comments from the book are amazing, I just bought the book, thanks allodial.

[Brian]

A contrary review (for balance). http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery...488724&mirid=1 (PDF via SSRN).

I noticed after clicking the link to look at the SSRN review it had this on the right side
"People who downloaded this paper also downloaded:
1. Libertarian Administrative Law
By Cass Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule

2. There Is Nothing that Interpretation Just Is
By Cass Sunstein

Cass the communist Sunstein? No further reading necessary. Of course he and his buddy Adrian would like the administrative state.

Edit a vid on the book itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llh4LHFBO8E

[allodial]

Interesting take on the contrary review, Brian. Good pointing that out. Sometimes, looking at the contrary perspectives can help strengthen one's comprehension of the subject matter when it comes to topics such as this. I suspect "administrative law" goes hand-in-hand with "legal positivism".

Also, administrative law seems to be in opposition to the idea of natural law.

Legal positivism was the "ruling paradigm" prior to the Second World War, and remained strong in the Soviet Union and Mao's Chinahe Theory of State and Law. Popularized by Hans Kelsen, legal positivism defined law as essentially the "authoritative command" of that power which has the capacity to force compliance. The lawyer's job was to be a scientist who focused on what the law "is" without reference to what it ought to be. In some fundamental sense, legal positivism showed little interest in how law came to be that "is"; legal positivism did not focus on how law and civilization coevolve. See Note on Coevolution. See Evolution and CoevolutionRule of Law: Ten Principles Governing Law and Law-Making. I supplement Fuller's "nine principles" with an important one that was central to his thinking yet is not "listed" in his seminal book on this subject, The Morality of Law (1964-1969). That tenth principle, the first in my list, is that the sources of law must be hierarchicalized.

Legal positivism appears to be the interpretative paradigm for treating "international law", "UN/international customary law" as if it were law by (administrative) interpretation of custom, tradition and habit. In the same sense that the Federal Territory of the U.S. is said to not have "common law", might the same be said for "international territories"--law of the sea?

Related:
The Enterprise of Integrative Jurisprudence
Terra Nulls (no man's land)
International Sea

[pumpkin]

IMO, administrative law is not unlawful. Law is simply a set of rules. The main question with any law is applicability. Corporations are certainly subject to administrative law. The people however are not. If you are an employee of a corporation, not only can your actions within that capacity be subject to administrative law, it will also be subject to the corporate law (rules) put into place by the corporation itself.

[ProfessorPhi]

allodial, I've attempted to message you privately. It appears that you have exceeded the amount of storage space for PM. Could you be so kind as to make more space or PM with another method of contact?

[allodial]

I suspect that administrative law is in the "right to contract" or "obligations of contract" realm. However, Philip Hamburger is making a good point in that it might actually be unlawful for Congress to make certain delegations in that to delegate judicial power to agencies might not even be lawful or constitutional. Also Congress cannot delegate more power than it has.

P.S. Lurking between the lines or on the sidelines or ..something ... somewhere... might be yet another term "operational law".

[shikamaru]

Is not administrative law private law?

[pumpkin]

I suspect that administrative law is in the "right to contract" or "obligations of contract" realm. However, Philip Hamburger is making a good point in that it might actually be unlawful for Congress to make certain delegations in that to delegate judicial power to agencies might not even be lawful or constitutional. Also Congress cannot delegate more power than it has.

P.S. Lurking between the lines or on the sidelines or ..something ... somewhere... might be yet another term "operational law".

Administrative law, IMO, is fine, when not dealing with the people. If applied to LLCs or Corporations, the legislature has full rein over them any way, and can make them go through a process. If that process ends with judicial review, I see no problem with it. The court will see if the process applied the law correctly. If it did, fine, if not, then they fix it. The legislature could very well create a court to apply the law in place of an agency. When dealing with fictions, I just don't see that there is much difference. The legislature can make corporations jump through as many hoops as they want, to the point of completely outlawing them in the state. Ha, imagine that.

[allodial]

You are onto something. And the legislature gets their power from where? Look at any state constitution or at the U.S. constitution(s)--who gave the legislature power in the first place? Where does any Commander In Chief get his/her military imperium from?

As for your comment regarding fictions or franchises you seem to be touching upon what is called 'plenary power'. But even still, where does the legislature get its existence and power from? Did you know that the Vice President of the United States is the president of the U.S. Senate (i.e. presides over the legislative body) and is thusly part of the legislature and is actually referred to as "Mr. President". Veto power of the President should make more sense in that light--because in a sense the Vice President is just the underling of the President and so that ties the president to the Senate (i.e. President of the United States).

In the Constitutional sense, a president presides sessions of a legislature. The president as an executive officer over the executive branch sense is another matter (perhaps Chief Inspector General could be an appropriate title). The executive functions extend from the legislation, subject to check by the judicial.

[xparte]

The transparent trust ALLODIALS greatest hits

[Note: The global secular humanist movement has been notable for promoting rule by unelected officials. Could there be a connection with administrative law? Is that to promote rule by administrative law? (Would you contracting with a private, foreign organization pretending to be a public, government organizations?)]



Regulations are not laws. So-called "administrative law" deals with regulations not laws. Regulations can be passed off as laws--if you allow it or fall for it.

Related:

• Interstate Commerce Act of 1887
• Legal Positivism
• Due Process
• Plenary Power
• Sedition By Syntax
• Unelected Commission is the Government of the European Union

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