Can God die

**Axe** · 03-10-11, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

Given:

1a. The Creator God created all things including Man
1. Man has Intellect - Spirit
2. Man has a Soul - His True Self - Hebrew Nephesh
3. Flesh is not Soul
4. Man's Soul has a temporary residency within Man's Flesh
5. Man looks exactly how he looked in first Age before the Katabole or Destruction [not Noah’s Flood prior to that]

Greetings MJ -

Question of curiosity; Do you recognize, or make a distinction between
the soul and the spirit?

Tom

**Michael Joseph** · 03-10-11, 07:55 PM

Yes. The Soul is what I like to think of as the "True Me". I maintain that we were all created at the same time therefore we all are the same age in regard to our Souls. Yet we come thru this Age at different times. Therefore in the Age to come we will look youthful as we did in the prime of life.

My Spirit is my intellect.

Tangent: The false shepherds have everyone worrying about the horror of the "end of days" - yet the Scripture I read says he comes in with flattery and shall destroy wonderfully. Peace Peace Peace.

They like to claim - but, but, but the blood is as high as the horses bridle - see, your Scripture says it is going to be mayhem. My response: The Sword without and terror within.....I sing the song of Moses.

The flesh lies on the ground as the Soul "steps out" of the flesh container. And birds of heaven will feast till their hearts delight. Did not Noah send out a Raven. Did it return?

**Axe** · 03-10-11, 08:16 PM

Let me say, I am not being argumentative, rather I very much enjoy discussing God's word
and hearing other interpretations from genuine believers.

So do you believe that the soul or the spirit, or both will experience the second death?

< Hebrews 9:27 >

Based on your answer it sounds as if you are saying the soul is the only thing that lives on.

Thanks,

Tom

**Michael Joseph** · 03-10-11, 08:33 PM

One cannot know his foundation until it is challenged.

some may not see death. Why because they are justified in previous age - or, have received salvation in this Age.

At the shedding of the flesh bodies - the Soul is either not mortal to die or it is mortal to die based on the foregoing. If the latter there is a 1000 year period for teaching and then there is the Final Day before the White Throne.

Therefore ALL Souls shall see the death of the flesh; and, some Souls shall not die due to pre-justification or salvation; and,

Some Souls are now today and at the time of the shedding of the Flesh Spiritually Dead and the latter are now also subject to the 2nd Death. Which is the blotting out of existence....What the false shepherds like to call Hell.

The Spirit is Linked to the Soul. Else the Scripture would be nullified at Exekiel 44:25. Therefore the Soul is with the Intellect [spirit]. The two become one.

But to answer specifically the Soul is NOT the Spirit. These are separate. Yet the Spirit is linked to each Soul.

In terms of what continues and what does not well that is up to the Creator and to us by Choice. We can choose. Therefore, while the Creator can guide his plan, by and thru election - I do not accept that the Creator knows what you are going to Choose. Therefore, I challenge the idea that God is all knowing in regard to his Creation. Else why give man choice? Seems absurd that man would have choice and God would already know the choice and then insert Salvation.

By and thru Election - there is a negative part to Election. Therefore it is not left to man to judge other men in regard to Salvation.

That just does not add up to me. Yet it is left up to the Creator in regard to managing the Souls he created based on the choices they made. All actions are entered [Registered if you like] into the Book. And God decides who shall go to Hell [be blotted out of existence - both Soul and Spirit] and who shall Live on.

**Axe** · 03-10-11, 08:57 PM

Great post MJ,

When I read someone quip about "Can God die", as if they have found the
"gotcha" that shows the inconsistency of the Bible, I see an opportunity to
correct a fundamental lack of understanding.

(I know this isn't what you were doing, I assume you were responding to the question)

The answer is much less dramatic, and in fact elemental.

The Communicatio Idiomatum

Jesus was both God and man, as the Bible clearly states.

Not half God and half man.
Fully God, and fully man.
John 1:1,14

Matt Slick explained it wonderfully;

The Word was joined with humanity (Col. 2:9). Jesus' divine nature was not altered.
Also, Jesus is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who
"manifested the God principle."

He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity.

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being,
sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3). Jesus' two natures are not
"mixed together," (Eutychianism) nor are they combined into a new God-man nature (Monophysitism).

They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The following should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action":

GOD
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33).
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59).
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).
He knows all things (John 21:17).
He gives eternal life (John 10:28).
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9).

MAN
He worshiped the Father (John 17).
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
He prayed to the Father (John 17).
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
He died (Rom. 5:8).
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

(taken from: http://carm.org/jesus-two-natures)

(sorry, I can't seem to get this editor to hold the above table correctly)

We know from the second law of thermodynamics and from Hebrews 9:27 that all "men" must die.

In fact the Bible is perfectly consistent on this.

There are 2 men that in fact never died according to the Bible.

"Inconsistency!" I hear the scoffer say.

To which I can only say, the end has not yet come to pass.

There will in fact be 2 witnesses that will come in the last days,
it is then that they will uphold the true, everliving word of God.

The consistency is perfect, as is the Author.

Kindly,

Tom

**Axe** · 03-10-11, 09:40 PM

The Spirit is Linked to the Soul. Else the Scripture would be nullified at Exekiel 44:25. Therefore the Soul is with the Intellect [spirit]. The two become one.

I would agree.

I do not accept that the Creator knows what you are going to Choose. Therefore, I challenge the idea that God is all knowing in regard to his Creation. Else why give man choice? Seems absurd that man would have choice and God would already know the choice and then insert Salvation.

I believe the Bible IS the word of God, as it is written,
so it is. Therefore I have to disagree here.

God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)

If He says something that doesn't make sense to me,
it is my ability to understand that is lacking.

Kindly,

Tom

**Metheist** · 03-10-11, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Axe View Post

The answer is much less dramatic, and in fact elemental.

The Communicatio Idiomatum

Jesus was both God and man, as the Bible clearly states.

Not half God and half man.
Fully God, and fully man.
John 1:1,14

So God died on the cross?

Or, at what point did Jesus stop being God, just long enough to die?

**Axe** · 03-11-11, 12:19 AM

Hello Methiest!

It seems through your sarcasm that you are being argumentative, but
it is possible that you didn't read the original post.

What is God? We are told – God is Spirit. Ye shall worship me in Spirit and in Truth. Therefore what died on that cross? It was the Flesh body that was sacrificed. Tell me, please with specific reference so that I can verify with my own sources, where do your thoughts reside. Please give me x,y,z and t coordinate frames of reference so that we can measure. I’ll wait.

The same as anyone that dies, that is not the end of them.

It has been said, we will all live forever, the only question is
where each will spend their eternity.

It seems your issue is that you do not believe there is any
part of us that lives on after we die. If that is your belief,
then of course you will not accept the explanation.

If you do believe that we live on, I don't understand what
you question could be.

You can shout from the rooftop "there is no gravity!"

But the results will be the same when you jump off the roof,
regardless of your "belief".

Kindly,

Tom

**Michael Joseph** · 03-11-11, 01:03 AM

The poet writes:

This World is not Conclusion.
A Species stands beyond --
Invisible, as Music --
But positive, as Sound --

Realize that we live in a world that has been Churched to death. The Preacher standing in his pulpit spouting lies - or at a minimum half truths in ignorance - and competent men laugh when one approaches and says - Jesus Loves You. Well no duh. Time to get off the milk baby. It is time that ye be teachers and here we find those still on the milk. So a competent thinking man discerns the half truth and either is repulsed or tries to see thru the lie.

The nephew of Sigmund Freud laughing at the masses who trust in titles such as Doctor of this or Professor of that. Yet the flock are fleeced by a slick in a fancy robe and a large pulpit - who preaches feel good doctrine without a lick of meat from Scripture. No wonder the intelligent laugh at the Christians. Most who call themselves by that name are so damn ignorant they have not a bit of a clue there are two Jesus'. And most will be as the five virgins found wantiing and without the wedding feast. For they follow flyaway doctrines and gloom and doom end of days doctrines - everything and anything to tickle their ears. To think - well that hurts. Who needs to think when we have pastor.

Fact is the foregoing initial post is my foundational thoughts - I can post and defend that position because it is my position. I care not for this man and that man - that is how we ended up with these re-ligions that plague the world with this trite doctrine and that - remember the five loaves and two fishes - afterwards there were twelve baskets full of fragments - one for each of the twelve tribes. The WASP flies back and forth to the fig tree (smyrna and goat - female and male) and yet that dumb WASP and yes I mean it the way it was intended to mean in this generation - has no clue of what is in the Scripture.

God cannot die. Nor can man absent the express force of God.

How can I be saved asked the Pharisee - Come thru the waters of a woman and be born from the Spirit above. And everyone that is Born of God cannot die and cannot sin. Why? Because it is God that justifieth. And the Word of Truth states that all sin leads to death.

Yet how am I to judge another man. That is the role of God. So I say live and let live. For I cannot save any man - even myself. But I can choose this day the way of life - for me and me only.

So one asks - Can God die? Absurd.

Then another asks can Jesus die? Again, there are those who have no foundational belief that the Scripture is the Word of God. As such, Can God die or Can Jesus die has no value or significance to that one. So be it.

Yet, Yehoshua or Yehovah Saves cannot die just as no man has died. Yet again the Flesh dies. And the Sacrifice was the Flesh. As David my beloved picked up those five smooth stones from the brook - five senses.

And Abraham recognizes that on his left brain is Ai - a waste heap in comparison to the right side of his brain - Bethel - House of God. Where the Spirit man dwells.

And this now goes to Identity. Who are you? The entire foregoing is based in belief - in Faith - in Hope and in Love for my fellow brother not wishing to trespass upon his foundations or oppress him with my doctrine; but to engage in a simple discussion - Can God die. And the answer is emphatically - No.

The Scripture is the basis of this presentment. Therefore, Yehoshua never stopped being God, in Spirit - and the Flesh, the clay, returned to the Earth.

God is Spirit. And Yehoshua is a manifestation of God in Flesh. The Spirit of God within the Flesh vessel.

Yet do not kid yourself. Yehoshua was tempted just like everyman was tempted. And the Sons of Cain by and thru their father Ha Satan - did in fact bruise Yehoshua's heel - Gen 3:15; yet Yehoshua shall bruise Ha Satan's head - blot out of existence - and Yehoshua was not forced to do anything - he allowed it to occur. Even praying that that cup of vengeance not be poured out - but knowing there is no other way - in righteousness. Man has Choice.

**Michael Joseph** · 03-11-11, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Axe View Post

Let me say, I am not being argumentative, rather I very much enjoy discussing God's word
and hearing other interpretations from genuine believers.

So do you believe that the soul or the spirit, or both will experience the second death?

< Hebrews 9:27 >

Based on your answer it sounds as if you are saying the soul is the only thing that lives on.

Thanks,

Tom

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

It is appointed that men should die in this Age once - there is no RE-incarnation. One trip thru this Flesh Age and then on to paradise. To reside in paradise, yet said paradise is divided into two sections - a gulf - a chasm - that cannot be passed. Luke 16. Also 2nd Esdras. See the so called rich man was on the other side and the gulf could not be passed.

Tell me false ones - where is your Hell. Where is your power now? Hell does not exist and in reality will only exist at the end - and at the end it - for those who can read the greek - it means to be blotted out of existence.

Tangent - what kind of paradise would it be if you could hear and see your relatives and friends - burning and tormented forever and ever. What now of your fear - false ones? Go peddle it somewhere else. Did you catch the blotting out part -

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here you must go deeper. Hell = Gehenna. And Gehenna is the waste heap and was a place to dispose of waste. Sort of like Ai = waste heap.

The Flesh must become subordinate to the Spirit [intellect].

**Axe** · 03-11-11, 06:34 PM

Hi MJ,

Wow, With all due respect I can't tell if you're hostile or cerebral.

Did you just call me a "false one"?

Never said there was reincarnation.

Speaking of peddling, I'm shocked to
see you peddle the apocrypha, especially
as scripture. What's next, the gnostics?

That explains much.

As far as hell, reasonable men can disagree about what you say.
But that may not bother some who decide to pick and choose
what parts they believe and what parts they don't.

I believe it's as written, take it all, or have none. You can't
have it both ways.

The very example you cite in it's entirety and in context.

Luke 16:19-31

19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (That would be Abraham's Bosom)

24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I think the readers here are smart enough to decide for themselves if your interpretation of the above text
is accurate or not. The text says "Bosom", not "Paradise". "Paradise is specific as it is used by Jesus Himself.

It is clearly hell.

Important to note that this is probably before the redemption, as it takes
place in Abraham's Bosom. Before the redemption sins could just be covered,
not cleansed.

It appears you are not the only one who goes to the original Hebrew and Greek.

If you were not being hostile toward me I'm relieved, if you were,
I tried not to be as rude to you. Now I wonder if your reference in
another post WAS-P was directed at me as well.

No matter, this is a free and open exchange of ideas, which I thought
you invited in the OP.

Have a Great Day.

**Michael Joseph** · 03-11-11, 07:08 PM

I have not directed any of the foregoing upon you Axe/Tom. I in no way was being rude to you or to your belief systems. I do however recognize that there are a great many who, while claiming a certain position [Religion] have zero clue to what they claim. Your views are your own. They are true for you and not me. Just as mine are my own. Yet our Intellect [Spirit] can be shared in a common forum.

So we disagree; great. I can see however, that I touched a nerve with you.

I in no way made any claim or argument against you, in personal capacity. Yet you seem determined to defend yourself. Why?

-----

But since you bring the controversy; lets explore for a moment:

Do you think a Soul has need of water? H2O?
There were no seas in First Age and no Seas in the age to come Third Age.

Did not Yehoshua tell the woman at the well, I will give you water to drink and you shall never thirst again?
Is not the bread and the water symbolic of Truth - God's Word?

Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

-----

Do you presume to be tormented means that he is burning or in extreme physical pain?
Perhaps this is shame? And they shall look up and see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and beg for death - "For Shame, For Shame."

Why would the man ask for a message [truth = water] to be sent to his father and brothers?

Do you suppose that perhaps to "be in Hell" might be a Hebrewism that means to be absent from God?

Yet Yehoshua went to speak to the Prisoners? Where do you suppose they were kept?

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

-----

Will you damn me to Hell if I study the Gnostics or the Apocriphal books like Enoch, Wisdom, Esdras....etc? Or what if I choose not to study the KJV at all? What if I study the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint Text? Does that qualify? Even the KJV - Romans recognizes there are many who have never heard the Word will not be found wanting on Judgment Day based on what their Natural Knowing of what is right or wrong.

-----

But in effort to stay on point - Can God die?

Btw Tom, thank you for engaging this discourse. I can tell you love to study and that is great.

**Axe** · 03-11-11, 10:50 PM

Hello Micheal Joseph!

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

So we disagree; great. I can see however, that I touched a nerve with you.

A nerve? I wouldn't say that. Maybe it's just the way I reasoned it out. Thank you though for clarifying it to me. It could be that I'm "special needs" in the interpretation of "forum-style" discourse.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

I in no way made any claim or argument against you, in personal capacity. Yet you seem determined to defend yourself. Why?

I saw that you had quoted me at the top of your post, (implying to me you were responding to me) and very soon after used some, at least to me, abrasive language and name calling.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

Originally posted by Axe

Let me say, I am not being argumentative, rather I very much enjoy discussing God's word
and hearing other interpretations from genuine believers.

So do you believe that the soul or the spirit, or both will experience the second death?

< Hebrews 9:27 >

Based on your answer it sounds as if you are saying the soul is the only thing that lives on.

Thanks,

Tom

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

It is appointed that men should die in this Age once - there is no RE-incarnation. One trip thru this Flesh Age and then on to paradise. To reside in paradise, yet said paradise is divided into two sections - a gulf - a chasm - that cannot be passed. Luke 16. Also 2nd Esdras. See the so called rich man was on the other side and the gulf could not be passed.

Tell me false ones - where is your Hell. Where is your power now? Hell does not exist and in reality will only exist at the end - and at the end it - for those who can read the greek - it means to be blotted out of existence.

Tangent - what kind of paradise would it be if you could hear and see your relatives and friends - burning and tormented forever and ever. What now of your fear - false ones? Go peddle it somewhere else. Did you catch the blotting out part -

I am capable of supporting what I say (as are you), and I will. And perhaps I relish a good discussion, especially from an opposing viewpoint a little too much. I believe DM refers to it as an "echo chamber".

My experience had taught me that truth is absolute, and it will stand up against challenge. If it doesn't, it isn't the truth.

It's one thing to say that you've decided what your truth is and hold to it regardless of what evidence and challenge shows (not speaking of you specifically, many people do this). Worse to me would be someone that decided what "their" truth is without ever subjecting it to any scrutiny from any external source.

In my mind that is a sure path to dementia, or becoming a sociopath.

Anyone is capable of seeing something that I have not or realizing something that I may have failed to. I'm eager to hear all points of view in order to continually grow and perhaps find areas where my reason is flawed.

I digress.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

But since you bring the controversy; lets explore for a moment:

Do you think a Soul has need of water? H2O?
There were no seas in First Age and no Seas in the age to come Third Age.

No.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

Did not Yehoshua tell the woman at the well, I will give you water to drink and you shall never thirst again?
Is not the bread and the water symbolic of Truth - God's Word?

Yes, God's Word, the Living Water.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

-----

Do you presume to be tormented means that he is burning or in extreme physical pain?
Perhaps this is shame? And they shall look up and see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and beg for death - "For Shame, For Shame."

Why would the man ask for a message [truth = water] to be sent to his father and brothers?

Do you suppose that perhaps to "be in Hell" might be a Hebrewism that means to be absent from God?

Yet Yehoshua went to speak to the Prisoners? Where do you suppose they were kept?

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

I admit, I do not have an acceptable answer for all of that yet. This has prompted more research. I will get back to you.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

Will you damn me to Hell if I study the Gnostics or the Apocriphal books like Enoch, Wisdom, Esdras....etc? Or what if I choose not to study the KJV at all? What if I study the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint Text? Does that qualify? Even the KJV - Romans recognizes there are many who have never heard the Word will not be found wanting on Judgment Day based on what their Natural Knowing of what is right or wrong.

I do not damn anyone to hell, nor does the Lord. People damn themselves.

Based on my current knowledge and understanding of the Holy Scriptures (which do not include Apocriphal books like Enoch, Wisdom, Esdras....etc) I believe that hell was never intended for man, but for fallen angels. Man puts himself where he is.

You read whatever you want. If you believe God is God, then you have to believe that what is represented as His divine word, IS His divine word. I do not believe that God would allow any plot of the devil to corrupt the one and only way man can know the heart of God.

I hear people throw stones like translations corrupted, or the Bible was put together by Constantine so it's not the real canon.

God will use whoever He wants.

The devil is not equal to God. It is not some "battle" between good and evil where two evenly matched opponents fight it out for domination of the human soul.

The devil is a created being, an archangel, under God, in fact used by God for His purpose alone.

God is in control, all is unfolding according to His will. Man's only concern is who will he follow.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

But in effort to stay on point - Can God die?

No.

Originally posted by Michael Joseph View Post

Btw Tom, thank you for engaging this discourse. I can tell you love to study and that is great.

Thank you for your civility and thought provoking questions!

**Michael Joseph** · 03-11-11, 11:45 PM

those questions were actually rhetorical; yet I am glad you responded, Thank you.

If truth is universal then why must we believe? I say I have a Soul; yet I cannot prove it. I say I am; yet I cannot prove my identity tomorrow. One says 2 + 2 is 4; yet in a different frame it is not four 2i + 2j is (8)^1/2. Therefore framing and context must be known specifically in order to determine truth.

If things are universally true; then why cannot I prove the existence of my soul? I have to believe - to have faith. And my Faith is not Universal. It is MY faith. We may share a common faith; yet our truths may not be common, because they may be based on different foundations/contexts/frames.

I want you to know that I truly am not provoking you nor am I aiming my intellect at you. Here's the thing if your foundation is absent challenge how do you know your foundation is sound.

So then regarding the assemblage of books called KJV. Who did that? And why? Constantine with Pope. What, if other peoples were studying other texts they are somehow lacking. KJV is based on the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint Text. And the good ole KJ VERSION is a very good translation - very good. Yet, a student digs a bit deeper.

For instance the Book of Daniel changes from Hebrew to Aramaic and back to Hebrew. There is a reason, yet the KJV readers will Never see it.

The Book of Genesis details the fact that Satan had sex with Chavvah and produced Cain; yet find it in the KJV. The Book of Genesis details the fact that all of the races of mankind were made on the sixth day; yet a special man and his woman were placed in the garden later on - ethhaawdawm and chavvah. Yet find that in the KJV. The book of Genesis details the fact that the time was shortened to five months from seven years; in accord with the Book of Revelation; yet why has this remained a mystery? The Book of Revelation means to reveal or make known, yet I have been met by numerous men of the cloth [whatever that means] who proclaim, you don't have to read Revelation, you are gonna be out of here. To those false ones, I say, Leave me behind. i will stay and work in the field.

All I am saying is when one studies to show himself approved unto God - that one in no way is in need of a Teacher. The taught ones shall teach others. Taking the office of the fisherman. Not seeking to oppress; but to help, if the help is requested. If not, live and let live.

Of course this goes to the three earth and heaven ages and to the elect of God - pre-justification before this age and the Parable of the Fig Tree. Maybe a new thread can be started to discuss those aspects.

------

One aspect of the question can God die goes to what is Flesh? The Flesh was Sacrificed, why is this so hard [not for you Axe] for others to see? What?, they presume the Soul/Spirit died? What in my or there experience would lead them to think the Intellect can die? Of course now we are back to the problem of Soul. I cannot see you Soul. So how on earth will I be able to Identify you.

Yet the critical student already knows the answer - If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. Which agrees with Gen 1. And Elohiym said let US make man in our Image. I look just the same as I did in first age. In the image of God made he Him. The Son looks like the Father and I look like myself [Soul] in first age.

The question that stretches the tent chords of my mind is: was the Flesh of Yehoshua with a Soul? I ask the Ever Living for grace as I try to unravel that thought. I am in no way attempting to disparage the Scriptures, I like Enoch stand before the Ever Living and say "I want to know". And the Angel told Enoch, because you want to know, I will show you.

Can God die

Can God die

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