Business Owners and Lawful Money Tax Returns

[Axe]

I need some input here from any suitors that run their own businesses.

Hopefully you will sacrifice a little bit of your time and charitably contribute
to this thread.

I've been redeeming lawful money for over 2 years, and have copies (front and back)
of all checks that I've done this to.

I'm a sole proprietor, and have a business license from my state.

I do not have a "business" bank account. I just run two personal checking
accounts and a saving account, using one of the checking accounts for the
business, and the savings for the local sales tax I have to pay quarterly here
to the local borough.

Customers give me personal checks, or pay online with PayPal.

With Paypal, there was no way to do anything with a restricted endorsement
so I just withdraw from Paypal via check and apply the endorsement to that.

Running my business costs a reasonable amount of money (expenses), which are
to be deducted from the total (gross) amount.

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't
able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

This would be things like having to do an electronic transfer to my bank,
or making purchases direct from my PayPal debit card. This is a much smaller
amount than the lawful money amount.

The goal is obviously to be completely honest in all of my dealings, so on my return
I declare all of my expenses, which is what runs me into the red.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but I need to figure out how to
do this accounting under this system.

If I only report expenses that I paid with Fed notes, then it will appear deceiving,
as my business would have obviously had more expenses than that.

So my question is how are you guys writing this up?

Thanks.

[Michael Joseph]

I need some input here from any suitors that run their own businesses.

Hopefully you will sacrifice a little bit of your time and charitably contribute
to this thread.

I've been redeeming lawful money for over 2 years, and have copies (front and back)
of all checks that I've done this to.

I'm a sole proprietor, and have a business license from my state.

I do not have a "business" bank account. I just run two personal checking
accounts and a saving account, using one of the checking accounts for the
business, and the savings for the local sales tax I have to pay quarterly here
to the local borough.

Customers give me personal checks, or pay online with PayPal.

With Paypal, there was no way to do anything with a restricted endorsement
so I just withdraw from Paypal via check and apply the endorsement to that.

Running my business costs a reasonable amount of money (expenses), which are
to be deducted from the total (gross) amount.

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't
able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

This would be things like having to do an electronic transfer to my bank,
or making purchases direct from my PayPal debit card. This is a much smaller
amount than the lawful money amount.

The goal is obviously to be completely honest in all of my dealings, so on my return
I declare all of my expenses, which is what runs me into the red.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but I need to figure out how to
do this accounting under this system.

If I only report expenses that I paid with Fed notes, then it will appear deceiving,
as my business would have obviously had more expenses than that.

So my question is how are you guys writing this up?

Thanks.

Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

It's like Bon Jovi says "It's all the same, only the names have changed"....

The question remains is the Person a US Person or not? Is it an LLC, Corp [C or S], Trust, what is it? Are you in capacity as Manager, Vice President, President or Trustee or Agent? Why does Capacity matter? It does not? Except to say that certain liabilities can be shielded by Persons.

Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

The signature card at the banking institution can be updated or close the account and open a new one. Every instrument handled even for the most mundane of reasons should bear the stamp "demand is made for Lawful Money per 12USC411."

Why because every piece of mail or other instrument has a commercial value. Maybe not now, but I can guarantee if the company is sued then those instruments might be used to find a value.

In the past, I have held offices of Agent, Manager, President and Trustee for many different Persons.

What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

I mean, come on Axe, who gave Standing to the Sole Prop? Did you? NO! You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons. That should open the eyes a bit.

Hello - It is ALL Trust Law.

[Michael Joseph]

Continuing.

If you have a web presence. You might put the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" at the bottom of the webpage. How about on the invoice; how about on the contract with Paypal or any other collection agency? On banking agreement - HELL every single piece of paper that you sign in or for CQVT or Sole Proprietor - which in reality is just the same thing - might bear the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" - A stamp comes in handy.

There is ALWAYS a work around. Have you thought about issuing a written letter on behalf of the Sole Proprietorship directly to the IRS? Have you recorded any other documents on the same Registry you have the DBA recorded?

Are you in love with Paypal? There are many other collection services - Intuit is a very neat one. You issue an electronic Invoice in PDF format with the embedded link - WRITTEN ON the invoice is "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" - therefore you have fulfilled the law.

The law says you must make a demand - what you get is not your concern - you made the demand or you did not make the demand - that is really simple to me.

[motla68]

Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

It's like Bon Jovi says "It's all the same, only the names have changed"....

The question remains is the Person a US Person or not? Is it an LLC, Corp [C or S], Trust, what is it? Are you in capacity as Manager, Vice President, President or Trustee or Agent? Why does Capacity matter? It does not? Except to say that certain liabilities can be shielded by Persons.

Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

The signature card at the banking institution can be updated or close the account and open a new one. Every instrument handled even for the most mundane of reasons should bear the stamp "demand is made for Lawful Money per 12USC411."

Why because every piece of mail or other instrument has a commercial value. Maybe not now, but I can guarantee if the company is sued then those instruments might be used to find a value.

In the past, I have held offices of Agent, Manager, President and Trustee for many different Persons.

What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

I mean, come on Axe, who gave Standing to the Sole Prop? Did you? NO! You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons. That should open the eyes a bit.

Hello - It is ALL Trust Law.

Whose trust law though, who says you have to use their trust? What was done before a Republic was established? The signs above buildings were very simple "BARBER" "BLACKSMITH, "SALOON",
if all accounting is kept in the treasury for everything is paid for and has another trusts seal on the currency and business's are just distributors of goods what do you need titles for?
bob: the plumber, mark: the barber, steve: the mechanic

I am in the conscience that Titles are nothing more then egos.

[Axe]

Thank you MJ for such a thoughtful response.

I was hoping you would contribute. I know I'm very lacking when it comes to trust law.

Hopefully you'll bear with me while I wrap my head around what you're saying here.

Okay... one thing at a time.

Cestui que (also cestuy que) (English pronunciation: /ˈsɛstwi ˈkeɪ/) is a shortened version of cestui a que use le feoffment fuit fait, literally, "The person for whose use the feoffment was made.

The cestui que use is the person for whose benefit the trust is created. The cestui que trust is the person entitled to an equitable, as opposed to a legal, estate. Thus, if land is granted to the use of A in trust for B, B is cestui que trust, and A trustee, or use. The term, principally owing to its cumbersome nature, has been virtually superseded in modern law by that of "beneficiary", and general law of trusts.

Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

I didn't have to register a DBA. I went to the state, did a name search, and got my business license as a Sole Proprietor.

Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

I sign as owner. So the demand for everything done in the name of the business is made on what exactly? The business license?

Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

I don't have Articles of Incorporation, I'm "classified" a Sole Proprietor. Articles of Incorporation are for corporations (c or subchapter s). LLC's have Articles of Organization, I don't have those either because I'm not an LLC. At the time I formed this business, I was just learning about all this stuff and was afraid of "contracting" with the government any more than I had to.

From what I'm hearing you say, I should form an LLC with that included in the Articles of Organization?

What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

Make it known through the "Articles", right? Because there is no such filing available for Sole Proprietors that I know of, though I certainly don't know it all. I have had other businesses, and corporations (sub s) but I've never cared about anything other than staying solvent.

You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons. That should open the eyes a bit.

No, I understand that.

If you have a web presence. You might put the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" at the bottom of the webpage. How about on the invoice; how about on the contract with Paypal or any other collection agency? On banking agreement - HELL every single piece of paper that you sign in or for CQVT or Sole Proprietor - which in reality is just the same thing - might bear the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" - A stamp comes in handy.

I do have a web presence, a lot of them. That is something I had not thought of. I need to get that done right away.

A stamp comes in handy.

lol.... I have 2 stamps, one for FRNs and one for checks.

Thanks.

[Axe]

Whose trust law though, who says you have to use their trust? What was done before a Republic was established? The signs above buildings were very simple "BARBER" "BLACKSMITH, "SALOON",
if all accounting is kept in the treasury for everything is paid for and has another trusts seal on the currency and business's are just distributors of goods what do you need titles for?
bob: the plumber, mark: the barber, steve: the mechanic

I am in the conscience that Titles are nothing more then egos.

Thanks for contributing motla.

Who says you have to use their trusts? I think they do. They say you need his and that, and they have the guns and the rooms with bars, so...

I'd be happy to hear how you would do business differently.

If you can show me a way that doesn't involve them that ends with me still free and in business, then I'd love to do it.

Thanks.

[David Merrill]

I need some input here from any suitors that run their own businesses.

Hopefully you will sacrifice a little bit of your time and charitably contribute
to this thread.

I've been redeeming lawful money for over 2 years, and have copies (front and back)
of all checks that I've done this to.

I'm a sole proprietor, and have a business license from my state.

I do not have a "business" bank account. I just run two personal checking
accounts and a saving account, using one of the checking accounts for the
business, and the savings for the local sales tax I have to pay quarterly here
to the local borough.

Customers give me personal checks, or pay online with PayPal.

With Paypal, there was no way to do anything with a restricted endorsement
so I just withdraw from Paypal via check and apply the endorsement to that.

Running my business costs a reasonable amount of money (expenses), which are
to be deducted from the total (gross) amount.

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't
able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

This would be things like having to do an electronic transfer to my bank,
or making purchases direct from my PayPal debit card. This is a much smaller
amount than the lawful money amount.

The goal is obviously to be completely honest in all of my dealings, so on my return
I declare all of my expenses, which is what runs me into the red.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but I need to figure out how to
do this accounting under this system.

If I only report expenses that I paid with Fed notes, then it will appear deceiving,
as my business would have obviously had more expenses than that.

So my question is how are you guys writing this up?

Thanks.

I tried to follow all that and well...

The question is how much withholdings are you paying? Your accounting should not be any different than normal. You have been redeeming lawful money so you have no taxable income - that is Zero. Therefore there is an amount of withholdings you have been paying in for state and federal income tax. That amount will automatically subtract from Zero and be your Refund.

Possibly you are not paying any Withholdings. Then you don't have to File because you have no taxable income. However it is turning up wise to file, include evidence you Demanded lawful money. This keeps the IRS agent from assessing you on the hearsay of others, like your clients/employers/bosses.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[motla68]

Thanks for contributing motla.

Who says you have to use their trusts? I think they do. They say you need his and that, and they have the guns and the rooms with bars, so...

I'd be happy to hear how you would do business differently.

If you can show me a way that doesn't involve them that ends with me still free and in business, then I'd love to do it.

Thanks.

Not sure if you seen many of my postings that elude to this, but take this for consideration. There is a trust survey, you want to use that trust survey to profit from with that Trusts currency, you need a license for that.

Now lets say your momma calls you earl and that you want to do business but need to use instruments of that trust in order to do it, we will " call " it earl : the powerwasher, you go out an buy a powerwasher and start getting some clients, you deposit that powerwasher into the treasury for the benefit of all, eventually you earn enough money to buy a backup powerwasher in case the first one fails, you continue to do the same and deposit the receipt for that into the treasury for the benefit of all. Your family grows, you buy a bigger house, and a mini van, all receipts or registrations get deposited into the trust. Everything you do is for the glory of your creator, so now in a legal sense you do not own anything but have possession and use of all things.
Then some rookie city collector [[ From the trust ]]seen all that you have use of and assumes you have legal claim on it, so he gives you a fine. How are they going to collect when you do not own anything? not even the money in your pocket because it has the seal and signatures of the Trust on it. The only way they can collect is by charging themselves, when you give them notice to these facts what do you think is going to happen to that fine?

See here in North Carolina, the general assembly of that state created all the charters for counties and cities, that city collector indirectly is even paid by the state. Any of this making sense now?

Raleigh City Charter: Article II
Sec. 2.14 - EXPRESS POWERS ENUMERATED.

In addition to the powers now or hereafter granted to municipalities under the general laws of the State of North Carolina, the City of Raleigh shall have the following expressed powers hereby granted to it:

(1)

Payment of legal indebtedness.

To provide for the payment of any existing legal indebtedness of the City of Raleigh and of any binding legal obligation that may from time to time be made by the City, and to appropriate funds for that purpose. <-- who do they trust, who are then under? Look above

(2)

Adopt ordinances, etc., for general welfare.

To make and adopt and provide for the execution thereof of such ordinances, resolutions, motions, rules and regulations as the City Council may consider necessary or expedient for maintaining and promoting peace, health, comfort, convenience, good order, better government and general welfare of the inhabitants of the City as are not inconsistent with this act and the constitution and the laws of the State of North Carolina.

[Michael Joseph]

I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.

[David Merrill]

I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.

Don't get crosswise with the City Sales Tax.

[Axe]

The question is how much withholdings are you paying?

There are no withholdings, I have to pay at the end of the year or quarterly.

Possibly you are not paying any Withholdings. Then you don't have to File because you have no taxable income. However it is turning up wise to file, include evidence you Demanded lawful money. This keeps the IRS agent from assessing you on the hearsay of others, like your clients/employers/bosses.

Yes, that's what I'm asking. I have "mostly" redeemed lawful money, but not all the time. I have been caught here and there where I had to do an electronic transfer and was unable to get the demand. I do not have the demand on my sig card at the credit union where I handle my affairs. I put the demand on the checks as they come in. Yes, I need to get that changed but it's not changed for 2010.

So I have some FRN liability.

So your saying that if you ONLY use lawful money then you shouldn't even file?

And if you do file, as a business, you have to list expenses in order to determine net profit.

If you list expenses with no taxable income, then you have a loss, and they want to send you
a check, at least at first. Do it for more than a couple years and they'll audit you.

If you are a business that is a corp or an LLC, then you have to get an EIN (employee id number)
from the IRS so they can send you your quarterly declaration forms.

So what, you have an LLC, you don't make any money but have expenses?

Or tell them you're not in business, and lie?

I just want to get my head around this. I appreciate everyone coming in on this to give me
a hand figuring this out. You're really making it all sound very simple, but the reality is different
when you're filling out the return line by line.

I would really like to know if anyone here is actually running a business, and filing in this manner.

[Axe]

I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.

Thanks MJ. Sorry for being "slow".

[David Merrill]

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

I think it is finally starting to sink in. We must be extraordinarily frustrating - so slow.

Now I get it. This is about reconciling your books with a Zero Return - you need to calculate your books accurately to calculate the City Sales Tax.


Processing...

The presumption is that the City Tax Assessor is in coordinated intel with Federal and State.

The Federal is the only assessment that matters. The State assessment is based in Federal.

Figure the City assessment accurately according to tradition because you are paying for the municipal commercial protection district - METRO organization. It has nothing to do with redeeming lawful money. The police and protection coverture are paid for by a percentage of your profits. It is a different priesthood. It operates within lawful money, in your case while the next shop over operates without lawful money - the elastic currency of the Fed. The tradition is the same.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Axe]

I think it is finally starting to sink in. We must be extraordinarily frustrating - so slow.

Now I get it. This is about reconciling your books with a Zero Return - you need to calculate your books accurately to calculate the City Sales Tax.

Well that too. But there's still the matter of being "self employed" on the federal tax
return, having expenses, but no profit... ever.

How does that fly long term?

[David Merrill]

Well that too. But there's still the matter of being "self employed" on the federal tax
return, having expenses, but no profit... ever.

How does that fly long term?

Only report the taxable income - which is likely less than the threshold amount (what? Is it still $6K?). So you would only report that in the event you want your withholdings back, or you want to be heard over the hearsay of clients/customers/bosses.


P.S. Possibly you want to be heard in accord with spot checks by City Tax Assessors and with your bank's books.