Certificate of Removal From United States and Canada - In their own words !

[allodial]

Its the registration--not the title. The CERTIFICATE OF TITLE isn't title but evidence of title.

I avoid the land of fence riding.

If X is required of residents then you either is a resident are you isn't. If you is then .... if you isn't then.... Plain and simple. If you fill out a bill of sale showing that the recipient is a resident then what to expect except for the recipient/purchaser to be expected to do RESIDENT things. Unless the State has some reason other than your armchair, inner feelings and magic twinkly toe rings to believe you would be exempt then what do you expect them to do? If a resident person has some exemption or immunity in back of that person then of course that might have some significance.

Many States have a form for notifying the DMV or the like of the sale. If the sale is to a 'person' 'out of State' then of course the 'exporting' State would not expect the 'vehicle' to be registered in the exporting State by the purchaser . However, there is also such a thing as an ASSIGNMENT that is NOT necessarily a sale -- like a gift or "just 'cos". I can give a car to a random Chinese person in China if I wanted. Obviously, the State would not expect that person to register.

Mrs. Cowsnatcher in 3rd grade electrocuted you for failing to fill out a box on a form so you have become entrained in that way--she convinced of honesty and integrity being inferior or second-fiddle to her subversive obsessive compulsive disorder which caused her to freak out over a form being incomplete even if it meant making children lie and cry (and you thought she was a good role model!)--and she set out to infect you and peers with her OCD? Whatcha gone do twenty years later when you're accountable and she isn't? I'm not one to write in things that I don't know or to write in information that is false. If the sale is to John Henry who lives on private land near Kalamazoo, Michigan, then hmm could it be that John Henry might not be a resident of Michigan when and if that applies?

Instead of playing around the junk title game, perhaps there is another option. Keep to the survey but let them know when the new owner is not a resident. Can the new owner have a residential address and be resident? I'd tend to say no. Just say no to cognitive dissonance. However, there could be some special arrangement made out of necessity.

Also, how much sense does it make for someone to use a State ID as ID as a purchaser in an automobile transaction and then turn around and say they aren't a resident when State IDs are only issued to residents? If the purchaser *is* a resident then whats the problem? Call your legislature maybe?



Of course if the Purchaser's address is: 2020 Mayberry Farms Acre Lane, Houston, Texas 12345 then putting false information in there might not be smiled upon by the State.

Warning: If the car is subject to a car note IT IS OWNED BY THE BANK/FINANCE COMPANY AND IS CONSIDERED TO BE LEASED BY THE BORROWER. A most elegant treatise/thread on the topic was lost with an older site.

I might benefit better if you describe the Survey. For example Grandfather implies that you would be referring to a previous Survey.

Exactly. A proper notice to the State informs them concerning the Survey among other things. This should eliminate the "last known registered owner problem".

Overall, IMHO timidity doesn't have much of a place in these matters.

Related:
Halting Between Two Opinions

P.S. Just because there is a box for sale amount DOESN'T AMOUNT TO A REQUIREMENT FOR MONEY TO BE INVOLVED IN EVERY TRANSACTION. Maybe it just means their form is about money transactions? For a mere assigment, I'd scratch out "SALE" and put in "ASSIGNMENT" or better yet I'd simply make up a Bill or Notice of Assignment and provide the substantial information. I'd have a clear and conspicuous verbiage that says the Assignor will no longer be liable as owner from the date of the assignment.

"I ran your VIN and records show you're driving a scrapped vehicle."

[walter]

One can 'scrap' a vehicle with their forms. Every jurisdiction has them.
Once done they remove the title from their records.
Them take the vehicle and get it inspected in their jurisdiction and get a vehicle inspection certificate.
Now you have removed the title and can prove the safety of your ride.
The rest is up to you.

[David Merrill]

I might benefit better if you describe the Survey. For example Grandfather implies that you would be referring to a previous Survey.

[hopefull]

consumer goods



again consumer goods

CON SUME R

goods
chatel property
say i have a box with blue ribbon filled with candy
say i take same box and put blue ribbon on it and leave the candy

its still the same candy ehh?
no thank you

[hopefull]

us dot- ... thank you for reply


appreciate reply however the US dot route worked good and works for some if grandfathered in
however still seems would be participating with babylon ,
so for one here looking to come out of

[allodial]

Maybe take a look at http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...n-not-required.

[allodial]

Off the the top:

[1] Lawful identification/credentials (motorist qualification card, lawful ID, etc.)
[2] IMHO car must be paid off*
[3] Sending to State DMV/DoR a Notice of Sale or Assignment of the automobile being sold or assigned to non-resident where most recently tagged - that lets the State know the car is no longer the previous owner's*
[4] Surrender plates if any associated with that chassis serial number (or VIN)
[5] Insurance or Financial Responsibility Bond*
[6] USDOT # showing no cargo, private, not commercial --notifying US Dept. Transportation that the # is only for helping law enforcement make distinctions betwen your private automobile and others; -- USDOT 3" or higher stickers on bumper and front bumper (license plate area empty or name of Entity or Person that the USDOT # is assigned and some artwork for fun)--anything about 'household goods' is to be avoided (see the link below);
[7] Private / Not for Hire stickers on the rear bumper*;
[8] not being a person born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States

One could even go as far as putting the VIN for the "Trade Name" or even filling a UCC or mechanic's lien on the automobile. IMHO * are mandatory or pretty much mandatory. IMHO it takes a reasonably well-rounded kit of knowledge and wisdom.



Regardless of that image, I would place separate PRIVATE / NOT FOR HIRE sticker on the bumper. USDOT 3" high letters minimum--to be read from a good distance. It is likely possible to get State tags with special arrangements at arm's length or better.

[hopefull]

re plates tags surrender

Pennsylvania and Georgia forms attached.

salutations
wondering if you have been without issue or stops
since surrendering tag plates
and if so what other processes did you use

own id. cancel insur, cancel return or rescind sign on dl? etc

thank you

[allodial]

Pennsylvania and Georgia forms attached.

[allodial]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the corporations, and not the actual land mass.

Is there a landmass called the United States? Or are there landmasses or entities that are construed to be territories of the United States?

I associate it more closely to METRO organization - global municipal jurisdiction, because of New York. The priests get a jurisdiction that is spread throughout the territorial jurisdictions. See I Chronicles Chapter 6.

The said territory, and the States which may be formed therein, shall forever remain a part of this Confederacy of the United States of America, subject to the Articles of Confederation, and to such alterations therein as shall be constitutionally made; and to all the acts and ordinances of the United States in Congress assembled, conformable thereto. The inhabitants and settlers in the said territory shall be subject to pay a part of the federal debts contracted or to be contracted, and a proportional part of the expenses of government, to be apportioned on them by Congress according to the same common rule and measure by which apportionments thereof shall be made on the other States. Source: Article 4, the Northwest Ordinance

Yes...territories. Is that what happens when a municipality swallows up an entire county? Everyone is presumed to be in dead hands of a corporation (i.e. no man's land cos they're all 'dead')? Does that have anything to do with the Egyptian Book of the Dead? Speaking of the Constitution for the United States of America of 1788--smells like a territorial government charter. If they wanted to be sneaky and expand their territory beyond its original confines, syntax games would probably do the trick--ya know like having Territorial governments posing as something other than what they are.

Related: terra nullius; no man's land; Northwest Ordinance; Plenary Power.

///

Re: New York... New York might be a special case.

Re: Colorado forms...

Colorado MV forms here.

Colorado has a similar system to Missouri and Kansas. You'd probably have to attach an affidavit with the proper language with a Statement of Transfer or the like. Missouri and Texas each have form for surrender of a driver licenses but the State of Missouri folks don't make them readily available. You can call them and arrange an appointment to do the surrender. Perhaps they have a form for surrender of license plates.

Key might be assigning it in such a way that it goes to a non-resident.

[loveunderlaw]

David this is the relevant section of V&T 318, it's very telling !

http://ypdcrime.com/vt/article6.htm?zoom_highlight=318.1+a#t318.

S 318. Revocation of registrations, drivers' licenses and non-resident
privileges. 1. (a) Except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, the
commissioner, upon receipt of evidence that proof of financial security
for any motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle or a motor vehicle
registered with registration plates of this state issued in the year
corresponding to the model year date in which the vehicle was
manufactured pursuant to schedule G of subdivision seven of section four
hundred one of this chapter, registered in this state is no longer in
effect shall suspend the registration of such vehicle and the driver's
license of the registrant, in accordance with the provisions of
subdivision one-a of this section.

(b) Such motor vehicle shall not be registered or reregistered in the
name of such person, or in any other name where the commissioner has
reasonable grounds to believe that such registration or reregistration
will have the effect of defeating the purposes of this article, and no
other motor vehicle shall be registered in the name of such person
during the period of such suspension.

(c) Suspension shall not be made under this subdivision upon the basis
of a lapse or termination of insurance if the registration certificate
and number plates of the motor vehicle are surrendered prior to the time
at which the termination of insurance becomes effective. Such surrender
shall be made to such officers of the department as the commissioner
shall direct, but the registrant at his option may surrender the
registration and number plates to any county clerk who is acting as an
agent of the commissioner pursuant to section two hundred five of this
chapter. Such county clerk may accept a surrender of registration and
number plates and require the payment of a fee of one dollar whether
such surrender is made before or after the effective date of termination
of insurance. The county clerk shall retain any such fee which may have
been collected, and shall return such registration certificates and
number plates, or dispose of the same, only as prescribed by the
commissioner. For the purposes of this section the expiration of a
registration without renewal of such registration shall be deemed to be
a surrender of registration as of the date of expiration.

(d) Suspension shall not be made under this subdivision upon the basis
of a lapse or termination of insurance if the vehicle has been, or will
be, prior to the date of such lapse or termination, removed from the
United States in North America and the Dominion of Canada for the
purpose of international traffic, provided that the owner of such
vehicle, prior to the date of such lapse or termination, has filed with
the commissioner a statement, in a form prescribed by him, indicating
that the vehicle has been, or will be, so removed, and agreeing to
notify the commissioner immediately upon return of the vehicle to the
United States in North America or the Dominion of Canada. Upon receipt
of the foregoing statement the commissioner shall restrict the use of
the registration to such international traffic until new proof of
financial security has been secured for the vehicle.

[loveunderlaw]

There is more than one "United States". Dean Clifford should know that. The United State being owned by someone or some entity doesn't make "we" owned AFAIK. Also "international traffic" seems to have a 'twin' or 'cousin' called "interstate commerce".

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the corporations, and not the actual land mass.

[David Merrill]

Now I am curious.

What is the purpose of the Form? Is it a Uniform Form? Does Colorado have a Form like it?

[walter]

Have you noticed that they stated the vehicle has been removed for "international traffic"?
TRAFFIC is criminal law meaning the sale and distribution of illegal materials, notably narcotics.