"You Don’t Have to Show Any ID to Fly"

[allodial]

December 28, 2015



(source/more)

Related:

• Feds Change No-fly Procedures to Evade Judicial Review
• Territorial Jurisdiction
• Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within the States (1954)
• Concurrent Jurisdiction
• States Need to Stand Their Ground Against the Real ID Act

[David Merrill]

At the intelligence nexus of a brain trust I have found that to be true. I have heard of several hours being saved in line (accumulative) by carrying alternate ID. Often there is a screening for government-issued ID at the back end of the line. You get a special 'private' search and they board you. I have never been denied access to the federal courthouse too. They send the clerk of court out to welcome me in and escort me through the courthouse.

The day I was denied access to the Tenth Circuit courthouse the security guards watched me call the clerk on my cell phone and she took my $10 cash right in front of them, and handed me my case I had requested.

My feeling is that the ID requirements is a policy for guiding security officials. It is usually a "judge's order" from the chief judge.

[Jethro]

Good stuff, allodial. I've heard firsthand accounts from friends who have gone through TSA checkpoints without TSA-sanctioned ID. Seems like the only issue is how much unlawful harassment does the man in the TSA costume wish to put you though. It would be fantastic to 'standardize' a manner of refusal to present ID, then disseminate the info so people can utilize it en masse.

Thanks for posting.

[David Merrill]

It seems that whenever somebody is buying a ticket online there is a NOTICE that they will need government-issued ID at boarding. It may simply be a fiduciary responsibility. If they turn away business...

[allodial]

At the intelligence nexus of a brain trust I have found that to be true. I have heard of several hours being saved in line (accumulative) by carrying alternate ID. Often there is a screening for government-issued ID at the back end of the line. You get a special 'private' search and they board you. I have never been denied access to the federal courthouse too. They send the clerk of court out to welcome me in and escort me through the courthouse.

The day I was denied access to the Tenth Circuit courthouse the security guards watched me call the clerk on my cell phone and she took my $10 cash right in front of them, and handed me my case I had requested.

My feeling is that the ID requirements is a policy for guiding security officials. It is usually a "judge's order" from the chief judge.

Denying someone from accessing their inheritance and common property only because they wont swear to be a U.S. citizen seems rather fishy and unlawful--conspiracy against rights?

[allodial]

Good stuff, allodial. I've heard firsthand accounts from friends who have gone through TSA checkpoints without TSA-sanctioned ID. Seems like the only issue is how much unlawful harassment does the man in the TSA costume wish to put you though. It would be fantastic to 'standardize' a manner of refusal to present ID, then disseminate the info so people can utilize it en masse.

Thanks for posting.

I suspect it might be helpful to present a claim of right to travel to the sheriff and the state AG (maybe even the chief judge of the nearest USDC) and carry a copy with you with along with cc and proof of service (+case jacket?). So then it might become a matter of TSA vs your sheriff and your state AG. You could also fill out the TSA Certificate of Identity and fax it to the TSA along with your claim of right and carry all of the the above with you.

[Tim]

Travel

So you have all these alternate forms with you, it seems a bit Amish (it's ok to use air powered tools but not electric), as in it's ok to have reams of other paperwork but one simple document which you know isn't you, is Bad? How far do we have to go to to prove we know who we are? We spend our lives (time) finding alternate paper to get the same thing. In the end they can deny you everything just by pointing their guns at you. period. kick and scream about your rights, to no avail.
Each situation we face teaches us something different about How little we really know after all.

I suspect it might be helpful to present a claim of right to travel to the sheriff and the state AG (maybe even the chief judge of the nearest USDC) and carry a copy with you with along with cc and proof of service (+case jacket?). So then it might become a matter of TSA vs your sheriff and your state AG. You could also fill out the TSA Certificate of Identity and fax it to the TSA along with your claim of right and carry all of the the above with you.

[allodial]

So you have all these alternate forms with you, it seems a bit Amish (it's ok to use air powered tools but not electric), as in it's ok to have reams of other paperwork but one simple document which you know isn't you, is Bad? How far do we have to go to to prove we know who we are? We spend our lives (time) finding alternate paper to get the same thing. In the end they can deny you everything just by pointing their guns at you. period. kick and scream about your rights, to no avail.
Each situation we face teaches us something different about How little we really know after all.

Sounds like you are misconstruing things rather wildly. TSA has a form titled Certificate of Identity. How is using their form is an alternative form? Alternative to what? "Papering" and nonsense? Well IMHO its (i.e. their form) a good alternative to what you are presuming. Its their (the U.S. DHS, a U.S. executive department headed by a member of the POTUS' cabinet and you have a problem with it because I mention that they made it available?) process.

The "novelty" possibility I mentioned was whereby one gives notice and 'register' with TSA ahead of time rather than wasting time at the airport. I only mentioned the possibility of sending it AHEAD OF TIME BEFORE ONE GOES TO THE AIRPORT and the possibility of asserting the claim of right to travel and distinguishing oneself from, say, someone breaking terms of probation.

What do you think the DMV does when you get a driver's license? They publish the information to their electronic subscribers some of which are called "police departments". Pretty cool, huh? Its electric so I'm not sure if the Amish would dig it. Of course, persons who have driver's licenses and state ID can simply show that but not everyone has such things.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3796[/ATTACH]

The TSA form is a total of ONE whole page. Of course you could make up a 1-page certificate very similar, incorporate your claim of right to travel or make transit in the same document and serve it on the Director of DHS and your State AG for the purpose of helping them do their job easier. What harm is in that? As a separate document, a claim of right might take up no more than a one or two pages if double spaced or the like with headings, signature area, notarial jurat, etc. Two whole sheets of paper is a ream of paper how?

You seem to be presuming somewhere to be a suggestion about idiotically "papering" like a maniac and writing documents where one goes on and on on about nonsense like how you're gonna take someone's dog's bowl if they violate your rights. Claiming and asserting the right to travel by any manner, method of transportation without hindrance can probably be done one to three sentences. No need to threaten anyone--you mistook this for something else, Tim. The notary block and the header would probably take up most of the page if you do a separate claim document. The few sentences to make the claim without any threats.

How far do we have to go to to prove we know who we are? We spend our lives (time) finding alternate paper to get the same thing. In the end they can deny you everything just by pointing their guns at you. period. kick and scream about your rights, to no avail. Each situation we face teaches us something different about How little we really know after all.

Again, who mentioned alternative paper? Its the TSA's and Deparment of Transportation's form. For those don't have a state ID or a driver's license they provided a form to help them out. A claim of right filed with State AG or a U.S. District Court is alternative paper how where by one would are simply peacefully asserting rights so one avoids lose them vestigially? Doing things ahead of time might help avoid wasting your time or theirs in a stressful airport situation instead of trying to have a philosophy of law class in a busy smelly airport.

As for them "just by pointing their guns at you" I've seen them do it to people who had ID and without any lawful cause. So what's your point? I've seen people abducted (by persons disguised as police--yes disguised because abduction isn't a police power--it is not an arrest) all because some gay dude was in love with a a straight man and was blind with envy and hurt feelings he had someone have him abducted under the guise of an arrest and booked for SOMEONE ELSE "to teach him a lesson" for not wanting his manjam in his arse --yes the cops abducted the straight man based on the lies and coaxing of their gay buddy even though abductee had had a passport card is pocket! The cops hid the passport! A judge got in and shut it down. The booking papers showed belt, shoes, etc etc but the passport card wasn't even mentioned. He said that they pulled a gun on him while he was locked in a secure area why? BECAUSE HE WAS WRITING THAT HE WAS ABDUCTED ON THE FORM! The next day he went back to the very same lockup (police station) to get his passport and demanded the commander come speak to him and the commander did. he got his wallet, they played dumb, the "arresting officer" ran scared and... what they did was put the passport card in the deep recesses of the wallet behind structural folds not in normal places. So your point is what? Be afraid? Prefer bread and circuses?

[Jethro]

It seems that whenever somebody is buying a ticket online there is a NOTICE that they will need government-issued ID at boarding. It may simply be a fiduciary responsibility. If they turn away business...

I believe that's just "friendly advice", not a requirement much less an obligation. Interestingly, while the airline's contract of carriage states that a passenger may be refused transport for not producing positive identification, it says nothing requiring that ID be "government issued". e.g. https://www.southwest.com/assets/pdf...f-carriage.pdf (go to p. 15, par. 6). I've checked in many times at airline ticket counters without being asked for ID, so I don't volunteer to show them any! No problems.

[walter]

It seems that whenever somebody is buying a ticket online there is a NOTICE that they will need government-issued ID at boarding. It may simply be a fiduciary responsibility. If they turn away business...

In Canada its in the statutes/acts.



Canadian Aviation Security Regulations, 2012

SOR/2011-318

AERONAUTICS ACT





I use my own ID. Almost never a problem.
If they insist on government issued then I show the COLB and Baptismal certificate.
It fulfills section (b) requirements.
Both are accepted to fly and both can't be used for any other public use.
eg. you can't bank with them, can't get a DL with them, can't get a passport with them, you can't get a SIN/SSN

The only time they wanted something more then my own ID was because they wanted a day of birth which mine didn't have.
Once I showed a lady right before boarding my COLB and she said "Holy, this is as official as it gets"
And at another time a lady asked what the COLB was?

Lets focus on "government issued identification".
Why do they require it? Besides the fact its law.
If you don't have government issued ID then how can they tell who's liable for you?
If you don't have it then odds are you are a stateless refugee.
You have no inheritable rights. You have no one to take responsibility for you. So why should they the airlines be held liable for you?
Its like when a citizen gets locked up abroad and the country of his origin comes to bat for him and takes on the ambassador role to free him from jail.

Here is the key issue.
They never state what government has to issue the ID.
Only a government.
So when you become of age and govern your own affairs, your papers are at par with theirs, and the airlines are off the hook for you.

[allodial]

Court-issued ID is government ID. ID does not have to be issued by the executive departments of a state.

In Canada its in the statutes/acts.



[I]Canadian Aviation Security Regulations, 2012....

Can you say ICAO?

It seems that whenever somebody is buying a ticket online there is a NOTICE that they will need government-issued ID at boarding. It may simply be a fiduciary responsibility. If they turn away business...

Again likely an ICAO compliance issue. Furthermore, government buyout or takeover of commercial airlines has a lot to do with this.

[shikamaru]

Just as their are controls on capital as to restriction or impedance of movement, might government issued IDs and records serve the same purpose?

In addition to regulation, there is the monetization and administrative aspects to consider as well.

[allodial]

Just as their are controls on capital as to restriction or impedance of movement, might government issued IDs and records serve the same purpose?

In addition to regulation, there is the monetization and administrative aspects to consider as well.

One side of government ID is 'limitation of liability'. If the person is a corporation and gets injured, far less liability on an aircraft. Having living souls on board is more liability than a corporation can handle. That is, which would you be liable for: the death of 500 PERSONS or the death of 500 living souls?

[xparte]

Are you identified as a passenger like luggage tagging insurance. Government regulates airports for a death certificate and death benefit.The process in life is private or public the Vietnam war memorial comes to mind a cold list made public all those private men/women the dog tagging. How government tags us nothing about assigned identification what separates identification only a claim.

[allodial]

Are you identified as a passenger like luggage tagging insurance. Government regulates airports for a death certificate and death benefit.The process in life is private or public the Vietnam war memorial comes to mind a cold list made public all those private men/women the dog tagging. How government tags us nothing about assigned identification what separates identification only a claim.

Or maybe they are wanting to be able to track when an "asset" moves from one "district" to another?