LAW states registration not required

[David Merrill]

However, I'm unaware of any free insurance available with a USDOT #.

I seem to remember that from the post somewhere just before this thread was diverted onto USDOT.

Above though; we see a tractor - obviously in commerce. Possibly so, whenever there is no trailer hooked up to it? Could that be the key? Not for Hire.

So let's look at the Official Use Only designation:



Note that happens on all the license plate stickers.

[Frederick Burrell]

Sorry not his sister either but if she was cute...

Anyways... seemed like it was a perfectly related and complimentary topic. No need for State registration of 'consumer goods' + USDOT # or DIY tags. All seems rather exciting and awesome as far as attaining remedy. My apologies if you feel your thread was hijacked. Am I the only one that gets excited about remedy?

So apart from USDOT # what do you feel to be good alternatives to State tags or even State registration? Is there anyone with good recommendations for overcoming the 'need' for tags for say even cross-country travel?

To the topic ..

I think if you read the law quoted the remedy becomes self evident. No registration required. The question seems more along the lines of how to notice those that think they are in authority. Home made plates would be a good start, as notice to those officers you meet on the highway to identify you as a private individual conducting private affairs and not for commerce. On top of that noticing authorities in the state and county where you live of the removal of your private transportation from the federal/state registry and either keeping accurate record for your self or use of a federal repository to keep records of the presentation made to said authorities. The second post fits into this Idea very nicely and shows this as a workable remedy. This the line of discussion I intended the thread to take, but no biggy. fB

[David Merrill]

I did that a long time back. The officer wrote the ticket very craftily so that I prepared for trial for a No Plates charge when the real charge on the ticket was Forgery. The accusation was that my home-made plates were designed to mimic vanity plates issued by the State. I prepared for the wrong charge because he fudged up the statute number so it could be read either way. I objected and should have appealed if it seemed worth it at the time.

[Frederick Burrell]

I did that a long time back. The officer wrote the ticket very craftily so that I prepared for trial for a No Plates charge when the real charge on the ticket was Forgery. The accusation was that my home-made plates were designed to mimic vanity plates issued by the State. I prepared for the wrong charge because he fudged up the statute number so it could be read either way. I objected and should have appealed if it seemed worth it at the time.

Should have known that somehow you would have tried this at one point in your illustrious career..lol

So what was the out come of the trial. Good information though, don't make your licence plate look to much like the real thing. fB

[allodial]

I think if you read the law quoted the remedy becomes self evident. No registration required.

If its so self-evident then why are so many people having trouble? You and I might know but does it mean that the Roscoe Pico Trayne does? No tags, no notice is a good way to get pulled over every single day you sojourn by such an automobile. You're dealing with US Naval Regulations on land in case you didn't know. Just FYI. No registration required is a 'law'. Attaining an asserting remedy in practice is another deal altogether. Perhaps "you can go through the door" is the law and actually going through the door is the remedy. As in, one invites the other.

The question seems more along the lines of how to notice those that think they are in authority. Home made plates would be a good start, as notice to those officers you meet on the highway to identify you as a private individual conducting private affairs and not for commerce. On top of that noticing authorities in the state and county where you live of the removal of your private transportation from the federal/state registry and either keeping accurate record for your self or use of a federal repository to keep records of the presentation made to said authorities. The second post fits into this Idea very nicely and shows this as a workable remedy. This the line of discussion I intended the thread to take, but no biggy. fB

Well many have tried to go without plates. Some have with or without success. I've made DIY plates and didn't have any trouble at all --they weren't USDOT related either.

No registration required. The question seems more along the lines of how to notice those that think they are in authority.

That is exactly why the USDOT allows non-commercial USDOT #s because they are aware that registration cannot always be required.

Home made plates would be a good start, as notice to those officers you meet on the highway to identify you as a private individual conducting private affairs and not for commerce. On top of that noticing authorities in the state and county where you live of the removal of your private transportation from the federal/state registry and either keeping accurate record for your self or use of a federal repository to keep records of the presentation made to said authorities. The second post fits into this Idea very nicely and shows this as a workable remedy. This the line of discussion I intended the thread to take, but no biggy. fB

So many of us have been there..done that. However, the topic multi-faceted and shallow thinking could get someone in trouble. There are different issues which can be touched upon by way of question:

(i) How to de-register a car from State registration?
(ii) How do you provide notice to the US, State of California or Canada concerning the uniqueness of your plate/tag?
(iii) What kind of information do you display on a tag?
(iv) What suffices as proof of right of possession other than a Certificate of Title?

i. You can transfer it from domestic to not domestic and/or from public/residential to private using by gifting/selling/assigning. States issue CoT to *residents*. Foreigners can be lienholders. Oh believe me I've had one on one with top-level DMV heads of more than one State. You find a "notice of sale" form and make a generic one using that kind of information and mail it to the DMV associate with the Title Document.

ii. You could send a notice to State Patrol, Attorney General, Sherriff, Chief of Police about the unique tag. Depends on where you are "coming from" so to speak. In the box? Out of the box?

iii. If identifying the particular automobile is key then the VIN # or the last eight digits (CA/CO) might suffice. Does your name go at the top of the tag? What goes at the top of the tag? Does the name of the assignee go on top of the tag? What's the significance of using the State's name vs the name of an assignee on a tag? 2" to 3" tall lettering with high contrast between letters and background tends to be recommended for automobile signage/decals.

iv. An MSO. Bill of Sale, Gifting or Assignment + MSO. Mechanic's Lien form. Other Lien form. Junk or Salvage Title. Notice of sale form.

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/6890.pdf

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/btr/82050.pdf

Those are examples of how you could make your custom notice using a Word Processor.

[allodial]

Could that be the key? Not for Hire.

Telling a rental car or a leased car from one that isn't using surface information can be quite a challenge if near impossible. Cops do not know who is leasing or who isnt. Cops dont know what car has a note on it and what doesn't. The DMV records are even designed so its discerning such is challenging. If a car will be leased beyond 30 days, the lessor puts their name on the title not the leasing company--thus more indirection/masking/concealment. So it appears that cops are trained to presume that everyone is borrowing from someone under a commercial lease. A payment plan on a car IS effectively a lease. If the car is not for hire--then that seems to have a twofold meaning: (i) that its not being leased/rented and is not under a payment plan; (ii) that the current driver is not trying to stir up business. "Private" goes a bit further in removing the presumption of residence or public-ness.

[Frederick Burrell]

(i) How to de-register a car from State registration?
(ii) How do you provide notice to the US, State of California or Canada concerning the uniqueness of your plate/tag?
(iii) What kind of information do you display on a tag?
(iv) What suffices as proof of right of possession other than a Certificate of Title?

i. You can transfer it from domestic to not domestic and/or from public/residential to private using by gifting/selling/assigning. States issue CoT to *residents*. Foreigners can be lienholders. Oh believe me I've had one on one with top-level DMV heads of more than one State. You find a "notice of sale" form and make a generic one using that kind of information and mail it to the DMV associate with the Title Document.

ii. You could send a notice to State Patrol, Attorney General, Sherriff, Chief of Police about the unique tag. Depends on where you are "coming from" so to speak. In the box? Out of the box?

iii. If identifying the particular automobile is key then the VIN # or the last eight digits (CA/CO) might suffice. Does your name go at the top of the tag? What goes at the top of the tag? Does the name of the assignee go on top of the tag? What's the significance of using the State's name vs the name of an assignee on a tag? 2" to 3" tall lettering with high contrast between letters and background tends to be recommended for automobile signage/decals.

iv. An MSO. Bill of Sale, Gifting or Assignment + MSO. Mechanic's Lien form. Other Lien form. Junk or Salvage Title. Notice of sale form.

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/6890.pdf

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/btr/82050.pdf

Those are examples of how you could make your custom notice using a Word Processor.

Now we are getting somewhere. Great questions. And good answers.

some of the Ideas I had:

(i) How to de-register a car from State registration?
Notice and return of the title with a 30 response limit
(ii) How do you provide notice to the US, State of California or Canada concerning the uniqueness of your plate/tag?
Notice of Intent description and picture
(iii) What kind of information do you display on a tag?
Unique, needs thought about what would best suit my needs
(iv) What suffices as proof of right of possession other than a Certificate of Title?
Notorized bill of sale, from former owner FIRST MIDDLE LAST to First Middle. Copy of the bill of sale along with notices, and former registration.

And since many of you have been there and done that, with success why the attitude. The forum is to share information and explore ideas. This starts with a post. Maybe not a perfect post covering all possible hiccups that might occur along the way, but a start just the same and one that didn't exist prior. So give me a break and share Ideas about how on registration and what you have learned. Or not. Thanks for your input. fB

[allodial]

... why the attitude.

Good question that I should have probably asked perhaps? Especially since I have only put in positive input toward remedy. Clearly there are many ways for asserting or reaching remedy. However, considering all experience (collective or otherwise) 'the USDOT # method' provides for the easiest remedy. DIY tags with proper notice to strangers or the like that you might meet along the way is tenable. However, its a multi-faceted. Utlimately it may be that you'd be providing exemplars for friend-foe-neutral "identification" for safe transit through what some might regard to be a theater of war.

When, say, the U.S. Navy launches a new ship, they typically make notice as to the type of ship and its hull or serial #s or the like. This removes an element of mystery when it is encountered by friend, foe or neutral. Same topic here...except this might dealwith more of a change of flags .

[David Merrill]

Should have known that somehow you would have tried this at one point in your illustrious career..lol

So what was the out come of the trial. Good information though, don't make your licence plate look to much like the real thing. fB

Convicted by the judge. He would not give me a continuance to prepare once I discovered the real charge. I don't know that would have done any good though since the plate looked like it did. The courtroom was full of about half the county's LEOs.

[allodial]

Convicted by the judge. He would not give me a continuance to prepare once I discovered the real charge. I don't know that would have done any good though since the plate looked like it did. The courtroom was full of about half the county's LEOs.

If "COLORADO" (presumably) at the top of your plate is 'forgery' that is telling. Using their 'collective name' without permission is forgery? But them using your fingerprints or name without permission isn't?

[allodial]

The font is called "Eurostile" (see also Tratex) btw. Others are the DIN 1541 and FHWA family fonts or similar ones which are utilized on USA/Canada or European highway signs. Eurostile is similar. They are selected as they are designed for high-readability. FYI, "Clearview" is to replace the current FHWA set of fonts.



As for using fonts designed specifically for high-readability, the point is to make things easier for yourself by making it easy to read from a distance.

[Treefarmer]

[Interesting article regarding PACER].

Interesting article indeed, thank you for posting this allodial.

[Treefarmer]

There is an Ehow article on transffering an automobile to a trust.


If your trust/estate is not domestic then Captain Obvious might mention that "It aint in a city, state ZIP" then. Captain Obvious perhaps required the sign that was photographed as below.



Perhaps some things aren't always so obvious.



NACRS has a document available online that you might find to be of interest.

And an entire book that you might find helpful.

That's hilarious.
Thank you for the links allodial, I shall peruse the material.

[EZrhythm]

I have been utilizing three styles of plates; US DOT#, PRIVATE - CONSUMER GOODS - NO LICENSE REQUIRED and a State Flag plate (*Law of the flag). I also have traveled without any plate for a time. I was stopped the most amount of times (3?) while displaying no plate, once while only displaying a US DOT #, once while displaying the "PRIVATE" plate (Testimony under Success Stories) and not once while displaying a State flag plate. The State flag plate has been displayed for the least amount of mileage of all the options but a friend has been displaying one for quite a while without incident.


*Law of the Flag - Under admiralty, the ship's flag determines the source of law. For example, a ship flying the American flag in the Persian Gulf would be subject to American admiralty law; and a ship flying a Norwegian flag in American waters will be subject to Norwegian admiralty law. This also applies to criminal law governing the ship's crew. But the ship must be flying the flag legitimately; that is, there must be more than insubstantial contact between the ship and its flag, in order for the law of the flag to apply. American courts may refuse jurisdiction where it would involve applying the law of another country, although in general international law does seek uniformity in admiralty law. http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/admiralty Interestingly enough, "Savings to suitors clause" is mentioned here.

More here; http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flag.htm

[motla68]

Not sure is you all are aware or not, but now when you go to register for a DOT# it has an option to select for transporting of " Household Goods ".