Translated? (Enoch)

[george]

how is "translated" translated?

about enoch was translated into heaven. im looking at this from a john 1:1 perspective right now and I wonder what others here think about this. it may have something to do with the name? a new name maybe?

thanks

[allodial]

Hebrews 11:5 via blueletterbible.org






Verses where the term appears (to show how translated linguistically in those places).

[David Merrill]

how is "translated" translated?

about enoch was translated into heaven. im looking at this from a john 1:1 perspective right now and I wonder what others here think about this. it may have something to do with the name? a new name maybe?

thanks

I think of there being two figures who were transfigured, rather than suffering death to the flesh. Enoch and Elijah. Spiritually I believe that none of us ever die.

I like reference to a New Name. There is a mention that this new name is like a white stone and that I believe refers to juries of old. After hearing testimony and findings of fact the jurists would put one or the other, a white stone or a black stone into a basket to vote on a verdict. Since they had these stones in their hands during deliberations we get a smooth white stone symbolizing acquittal. I have associated this new smooth white stone with the true name for a long time. On the Libel of Review we can see how setting up the evidence repository in the true name (first and middle) distinguishes the man or woman from the TRUST NAME on banking and driver license ID enabling Refusal for Cause in almost all contract presentments.

Studying the Book of Mark reveals how people thought John was channel for Elijah. So in my interpretation I imagine John was a true Prophet of God and the King of Israel's prophet to King Archelaus HEROD. Also there is a Jewish tradition at Passover where Dad will slip out the back, go to the front door and knock. Everybody at the meal will await in anticipation like it is the Prophet Elijah at the door, come to initiate the Messianic Age. When Dad comes in instead the dinner guests say, Maybe next year in Jerusalem!

I have used this model to explain how Elijah is "kosher" as a ghost because he was transfigured. In all other cases resurrection from the dead is considered against the law - necromancy and reanimation are considered against the natural laws of God.

[george]

hi allodial, David,

blueletterbible.org looks to be quite handy for these things. bookmarked it. so it seems "translation" = metathesis which is a bit odd to me but interesting. cant figure out how to get to the hebrew and aramaic functions on that site. is that possible there? still clicking around.

and where did this text come from: http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/attac...1&d=1451078998 ?

"distinguishes the man or woman from the TRUST NAME" perhaps, a translation has occurred also?


"Jewish tradition at Passover where Dad will slip out the back, go to the front door and knock. Everybody at the meal will await in anticipation like it is the Prophet Elijah at the door" i guess its not as strange as the santa claus tradition and certainly much older than it.

I dont know enough to comment on most of that David but I sure am perplexed by John 1:1 KJV, and consider if one is to use anothers translation (authority?) and "the word was god" I think it better to de-fine differently or at least re-fine the words.

thos are not my words but if I create my own new words then communication will be difficult with them but not completelt impossible.


thanks

[allodial]

The image is from "Thayer's Lexicon". That image is available via blueletterbible.org.



Re: John 1:1, etc. You might try looking at Young's Literal Translation and comparing it with the KJV.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2this one was in the beginning with God; 3all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. 4In him was life, and the life was the light of men, 5and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it.

Just about every major translation has "the word was god". The Aramaic in English version is somewhat different:

In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

Word in Greek is "logos".

As Logos has the double meaning of thought and speech, so Christ is related to God as the word to the idea, the word being not merely a name for the idea, but the idea itself expressed. The thought is the inward word (Dr. Schaff compares the Hebrew expression "I speak in my heart" for "I think").

The Logos of John is the real, personal God (1:1), the Word, who was originally before the creation with God, and was God, one in essence and nature, yet personally distinct (1:1, 18); the revealer and interpreter of the hidden being of God; the reflection and visible image of God, and the organ of all His manifestations to the world. Compare Hebrews 1:3. He made all things, proceeding personally from God for the accomplishment of the act of creation (1:3), and became man in the person of Jesus Christ, accomplishing the redemption of the world. Compare Philippians 2:6. (source)

The typical modern Western culturalist might not be aware of the significance of speech and words although the power of words so the text may seem 'silly' or 'blank'. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". Ask someone who has received a jail sentence or a piece of mail saying they have cancer how 'silly' the idea of word power might be. The power of speech and words was highly regarded in ancient Egypt and in ancient Greece.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3

Related:

• Biblehub John 1:1 textual analysis
• John 1:1 (multiple versions - biblehub)
• What is the original Greek translation of John 1:1? [duplicate]

[george]

yes, as I suspected, there is a lot more to this and probably a very good direction to take in studies.

I got side tracked a bit on metatron and melchezidek again but only for a few moments.

pheonecian language seems to be the oldest according to the common records available. I wonder has anyone recreated it by voice and if that is available? off to youtube first, maybe we can hear something of it?


thanks for the tips and comments, as always.. good stuff!

[george]

enabling Refusal for Cause in almost all contract presentments.

hey David,

upon another read, this stuck out for me. you write "almost all" and I wonder now what types of contract presentments would be the exception? mainly, in order to get a better view of mechanisms of contracting and how they might differ.

thanks

[allodial]

yes, as I suspected, there is a lot more to this and probably a very good direction to take in studies.

I got side tracked a bit on metatron and melchezidek again but only for a few moments.

pheonecian language seems to be the oldest according to the common records available. I wonder has anyone recreated it by voice and if that is available? off to youtube first, maybe we can hear something of it?


thanks for the tips and comments, as always.. good stuff!

You might surprised or not of the connection between Hebrew, Greek. There was a book called "Hebrew Is Greek" by a Joseph Yahuda ~ 1982. The author AFAIK is referring mainly to pre-Homeric Greek. On that note, it has been suggested that after 'Exodus' some wound up where is today called Greece. Note: I don't necessarily agree with the author's conclusions. The point really is to get at a potential of a more meaty and interesting link of Hebrew, Phonecian, Egyptian/Coptic languages. While there might be similarities between Greek and Hebrew I dunno if I'd go as far as Yahuda. What would one expect from languages spoken in close proximity? Maybe a link back to Coptic/Egyptian might be more worthy of study? Afterall, ancient Egyptian words show up in the OT Hebrew--even in the Book of Genesis. The over-emphasis on a Hebrew-Greek seems more like a diversion as opposed to a Hebrew-Chaldee-Phoencian-Egyptian/Coptic study.



Greek was probably influenced by Egyptian languages. Maybe even Akadian?

[xparte]

Con founding a language when did man master the word making his own language enough that biblically it needed a tongue transformation into many or can language be just trusts.That founding language translated Just about every major translation has "the word was god".The confounding practise is to keep the word or the trust. I trust latin is that refounding of the founding language or the new manipulation any one word. God keeps his word in every tongue especially if your not following .

[george]

hi allodial & xparte,

Im more surprised to learn about Hieratic.. so close to heretic LOL Id never heard of it or demotic prior to the youtube audio in the topic I recently posted in words and terms section.

I think he is onto something.

edit: wikipedia link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieratic "priestly writing"

thanks

[allodial]

Well Hiero-glyphics, hiero-phant. Hier+archy. Hero/Pharoah--shepherd; chauffer.

Consider a priest as a trustee over people's minds, hearts, souls or lives. The rogue priest seeing profit conceals or ditches the original trust agreement or first estate, those he watches over might not know better if he sets himself up as "GOD". It has been widely suggested that such is what Cain (aka Sargon) did and Nimrod, they created 'religious systems' as a means of political, economic and social control over those they SOUGHT TO LIVE OFF OF (as in to consume their productivity). Consider the dust of the field being 'unregenerate and carnal men'. Consider the priest that is up-and-up being focused on making sure those under his or her trust live their lives to the fullest in upright ways. The rogue is about himself and his own profit. Cain ask: "Am I my brother's keeper?" Keepers tend to protect who or what they are entrusted with. Did Cain protect Abel?

Anyways, its possible to avoid confusing carnal political control 'religion' from the good stuff.

[Michael Joseph]

Well Hiero-glyphics, hiero-phant. Hier+archy. Hero/Pharoah--shepherd; chauffer.

Consider a priest as a trustee over people's minds, hearts, souls or lives. The rogue priest seeing profit conceals or ditches the original trust agreement or first estate, those he watches over might not know better if he sets himself up as "GOD". It has been widely suggested that such is what Cain (aka Sargon) did and Nimrod, they created 'religious systems' as a means of political, economic and social control over those they SOUGHT TO LIVE OFF OF (as in to consume their productivity). Consider the dust of the field being 'unregenerate and carnal men'. Consider the priest that is up-and-up being focused on making sure those under his or her trust live their lives to the fullest in upright ways. The rogue is about himself and his own profit. Cain ask: "Am I my brother's keeper?" Keepers tend to protect who or what they are entrusted with. Did Cain protect Abel?

Anyways, its possible to avoid confusing carnal political control 'religion' from the good stuff.

In the Egyptian Hieroglyphs there exists a story of the "Feather of Maat". The idea is that when one died his/her heart was weighed in the balance and if it was lighter than Maat's feather then he/she could pass. Later hieroglyphs showed a priest of AMU holding onto the scales with one hand which in this writers mind indicates that the priesthood had seized upon the concept of Salvation. Such that the priesthood was actively selling their interpretations for money [tithe]. There is nothing new under the sun. Fear of Hell was sold to the masses and the priests took their seat in power and office.

It is a shame that those who are given much to know many times use their knowledge to burden other men. Instead of a life given to service, these becomes parasites. Nevertheless there is a positive and negative sides to all things.

We find that Peter fished all NIGHT long and caught nothing in his own undertakings. But we also find that the Shepherds who watched their flock by Night were the first to see Christ. But at the dawn comes Jesus [enlightenment : water turns to wine] with instruction and then Peter is overwhelmed by the many GREAT FISHES which are truths.

Nevertheless in regard to religion:

Mat 15:32 Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Is it not the job of the priest to provide food for the people? Instead we see the priests with their hand on the balance. And we read:

Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

And hell is apparently, I am told, a place of no escape. And yet:

Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

Fear is indeed a powerful toehold on the minds of man. And now there is an annointing that one can receive such that a priest [outwardly] is not needed. Thusly there is no need for those who wold rip off the flocks - Sons of Eli.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The foregoing is the Spiritual inward path = The Way of Matthew 15:32.

[george]

Consider a priest as a trustee over people's minds, hearts, souls or lives.

I'd rather not.. lol j/k but that is just insane, no? (those people)

The rogue priest seeing profit conceals or ditches the original trust agreement or first estate,

breech of trust? how did he get the first estate? Im still working on comprehending trusts in general.

those he watches over might not know better if he sets himself up as "GOD". It has been widely suggested that such is what Cain (aka Sargon) did and Nimrod, they created 'religious systems' as a means of political, economic and social control over those they SOUGHT TO LIVE OFF OF (as in to consume their productivity).

I read somewhere that the first notions of property and ownership developed out of religions.

Consider the dust of the field being 'unregenerate and carnal men'. Consider the priest that is up-and-up being focused on making sure those under his or her trust live their lives to the fullest in upright ways. The rogue is about himself and his own profit. Cain ask: "Am I my brother's keeper?" Keepers tend to protect who or what they are entrusted with. Did Cain protect Abel?

that is a lot to consider.

Anyways, its possible to avoid confusing carnal political control 'religion' from the good stuff.

TBH at this time its hard for me to imagine that any religion is good stuff, and its not for lack of trying either but Im not done yet.



MJ, some have said that Hieratic script was the first cursive writing which would seem to indicate that it was used to hide things or keep secrets. interesting post and I at least agree with "there is a positive and negative sides to all things"

thanks

[allodial]

Without truth or insight about reality and life and laws spirtual and physical, where would you or anyone else be? You would call it 'religion'. But where would you be without the light of truth? I'm not talking about perversion of truth for immoral political ends and objectives. Do you want the chaos of the heretical Gnostics where everything goes even murder is OK? Probably not.

As for cursive writing being used to hide something that makes little sense. In my studies it seems that cultures that were highly stratified with a small ruling elite and a large underclass promoted pictographic writing. Consider China (why is it that there is so little talk about the political structure of China in the MSM?), they have thousands of hieroglyphic characters. Typically the wealthy and elite learn them all or most of them or know way more and the 'plebes' who are left with a small and meager vocabulary. In contrast there is phonetics. In the USA, since WWII, there has been a trend to undermine phonetics in education and to instead teach the asinine "word picture" or "whole word" style of reading. The idea of using 'cursive' to hide something makes little sense and to suggest such seems very misleading because there is little difference in uncial and cursive in that they are both fundamentally phonetic. I have studied linguistics for decades. If you look at John Taylor Gatto's book The Underground History of American Education he gets into the phonetics vs. 'word pictures' style of teaching reading. Hiding something would probably tend to focus on pictographics vs phonetics.

A book that gets into development of "Hebrew" (aka Chaldee): Phonology and Morphology of Biblical Hebrew by Joshua Blau.

As for ancient Egyptian in the book of Genesis: Genesis 1-2 In Light Of Ancient Egyptian Creation Myths. Beware of the Babylonians because they have been claiming to be the source "of all things", when that might not be true. They try to claim Babylonian origins of Genesis, etc. when evidence is quite to the contrary--ancient Egyptian words that predate Babylon are found in the text.

Want to hide something with cursive writing? LOL--nonsense. You could make your own language or script instead. Consider this instead (as contrasted with phonetics):

My thesis is that university students, generally speaking, are academically unprepared for a rigorous education because they are victims of the whole-word method of reading instruction. The whole-word method created a crisis of vocabulary. The vocabulary crisis made books inaccessible to students, which then necessitated a drop in content-knowledge levels. This lack of content knowledge made it futile for teachers to expect students to think critically and independently. The system then created a number of ways to cover up this problem. (source)

Word pictures, like hieroglyphics would tend to hide the phonetic nature of speech and etymology of words. If you study linguistics you'll see how its possible to control a people's entire reality through the words you teach them or don't teach them. Understand vs overstand (they left that one out). Consider 'upon' vs 'on' vs. 'in'--in and on are much the same word in other languages. (He was "upon the land", he was "on the land" vs "he was in the land". )

Regarding religion and such: IT WAS (PROGRESSIVE) HORACE MAN "FATHER OF COMMON (COMMUNIST) SCHOOLS" IN AMERICA THAT FIRST ATTACKED PHONETICS AS A METHOD OF TEACHING READING SKILLS. SURPRISE: THE FATHER OF COMMON SCHOOLS (OR PUBLIC EDUCATION) WAS ALSO THE FIRST TO ATTACK A SOUND APPROACH TO READING SKILLS -> IT SEEMS THAT DUMBING PEOPLE DOWN WAS HIS PRIMARY OBJECTIVE ALONG WITH HIS COHORT JOHN DEWEY.

Horace Mann (1796-1859) has been called the "father of the common schools." I have seen no history book to date that bothered to tell anyone that Horace Mann was a Unitarian, a member of a "Christian" denomination that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Unitarians, especially in the New England states, were in the front lines of the struggle to implement compulsory public schools.

The Unitarians felt that Christian schools were backward. They felt that education must be concerned with "liberty" and that "liberty" came from the state, not from God. In their eyes, education, to fulfill its calling, had to be government-run. Mr. Mann felt that government-run schools would rid the nation of crime, poverty, sin, etc., within a century. Well, the century has passed, and guess what? To say that Mann's claim was erroneous would be a gross understatement. (source)

source)

They attacked that societies weren't overly-centralized and that power wasn't centralized in a few--and they attacked existing religion as part of their objectives.

Horace Mann is the person credited with starting government-run education in the United States in 1839. He learned his techniques {from} Prussia. His motivation was to end education by Christians. Horace Mann was a Unitarian, did not believe in the inspiration of the Bible, or the Trinity. Horace Mann's religion was Secularism.'

John Dewey, in the 1920s and 1930s, really established Horace Mann's principles. He introduced the concept of "Humanistic education as a religion." Dewey was President of the American Humanist Association and a signer of the first Humanist Manifesto. He saw Christianity as a huge problem that needed to be solved. Dewey's religion was Secularism.'

Horace Mann visualized a world where no one would be in the prisons, a virtual utopia, if he could just get Christianity out of education. He has largely succeeded, and the result is horrible in terms of teen pregnancies, abortions, assaults, robberies, murders, rapes, vandalisms, and the list goes on. Horace Mann, in his idiocy, predicted utopia, but he got the currently increasingly awful mess. (source)

"Secularism" ...communism. "State as God". Maybe that's the kind of religion you might prefer instead, george?

source, PDF-page 89) --The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto

Also:

• Why Do Students Regard Reading as Torture?
• Decrypting Education In America

[xparte]

Spiritual . . . But Not Religious

"Fearlessness is the first requirement of spirituality. Cowards can never be moral." -- Mahatma Gandhi Without truth or insight about reality and life and laws spiritual and physical, where would you or anyone else be? Theodore Nottingham: The Knowledge of the Essenes The Essenes were an advanced and highly evolved race of people," Nottingham observes. "Much of their time was devoted to the study of ancient texts, various branches of the healing arts, (and) there were also those who travelled far and wide through the various centers they maintained."

In very modern terms, Nottingham explains how, "(l)ike many of the ancient gnostic groups, the Essenes believed that humankind was made up of three aspects: the body, mind and emotions." "The ultimate goal of the individual," he explains, "was the evolution, not only within him or herself, but also in regards to the planet and universe as a whole. The body was the outer means through which this was expressed, while the mind was seen as the inner manifestation, and creator of thoughts and emotions, which the body then responded to and acted upon. Thought was therefore considered to be the highest, most powerful force in the universe, as it was seen as the instigator of both feeling and action.

"The Essenes," Nottingham points out, "therefore trained themselves to harness this power in a positive way, knowing that each thought effected the lives of everyone on the planet through the vibrations they sent into the collective unconscious." It appears to me that wealth and how much one required forgiveness for that wealth. it was the greatest need that both spiritually and morally Men became wealthy within the church. Spiritually Christ has little need for a latin mass or a protest and Reformation of the word. When Christ cant accept himself he would have just become religious and thats just not acceptable Spiritually.I impart the obligation is pure of heart.