walking the walk

[Keith Alan]

The real rub here is that filling out the W-4 Form is a mandatory part of employment in America. If the employer fails to collect the W-4 Forms from all the employees there can be fines and other penalties for the employer.




This reminds me of the LOST TV series. I watched the entire six seasons only to find that it was a post-death hallucination - all of it! It was a remake of Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge, and Jacob's Ladder in my opinion. Beware the linguistics of anything LOST!




Thank you for the video commentary. It has prompted me to Review of My Videos - new threads coming soon. I know there are things I have confirmed as well as am embarrased to have said. Like with HENDRICKSON that is a problem about publishing where you are at that time, when life is a learning process.

The evolved comment in your second paragraph Realname, is that we can be full-fledged State Banks and still make our demand for lawful money. That in fact is who (what) the remedy is intended for - state banks who have been issued Federal Reserve notes. There are suitors earning over $100K/year gainfully employed.


Regards,

David Merrill.

Your last comment, David, is very interesting to me. I've been mulling over the very same idea, that the demand is available only to state banks. After all, isn't it true that anyone holding FRN's is then a state bank by default? At any rate, I've been trying to figure out what this implies. It seems that if someone is holding FRN's (or has deposits on account denominated in FRN's) , and is entitled to demand redemption in lawful money, he has been holding FRN's from the beginning. Since this must be the case, then isn't it also true he that his status as a state bank hasn't changed? And that any income he receives is first received in FRN's? And while his income in FRN's might be offset by the demand, wouldn't filing a return still be required?

I apologize for my muddled thinking, but I'm trying to understand the process completely. After much soul searching, I've come to realize that my most important concern is to completely withdraw from this system. However, it appears that one must be in the system in order to use it. That is appealing on one level, but it still goes against my grain.

It has occurred to me that the only way to completely withdraw is to never receive FRN's. That leaves barter or using alternative currency altogether as a means of trading with people. I guess my problem boils down to this: I don't see how redeeming lawful money changes the nature of a person's relationship to the government. I see how it can be advantageous and desirable to redeem lawful money, but it looks like a catch-22; that one must be in the system in order to use it.

I'm sorting my thoughts as I write, and it appears my goal of withdrawing completely may not be realistic. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[shikamaru]

I'm sorting my thoughts as I write, and it appears my goal of withdrawing completely may not be realistic. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I'll disagree with you. Your goal of withdraw is very feasible.

It will be tricky, but is doable when you have a grand strategy.

[Keith Alan]

I'll disagree with you. Your goal of withdraw is very feasible.

It will be tricky, but is doable when you have a grand strategy.

That is what I've been thinking until lately. To withdraw would require finding enough people to trade with who could supply the things we all need. And while there are now numerous cooperatives and mutual aid societies in existence, I have found a great reluctance among most people to even consider trading in anything other than FRN's. Barter is okay, but it's very difficult to get most things when you need them.

[shikamaru]

That is what I've been thinking until lately. To withdraw would require finding enough people to trade with who could supply the things we all need.

Don't forget production. Produce your own.

And while there are now numerous cooperatives and mutual aid societies in existence, I have found a great reluctance among most people to even consider trading in anything other than FRN's. Barter is okay, but it's very difficult to get most things when you need them.

How about another idea?
How about using a corporation or trust as an interface and front for acquiring the things that you need or desire?

If there is some ownership interest involved, that interest can be deposited into a trust.

[Keith Alan]

Don't forget production. Produce your own.



How about another idea?
How about using a corporation or trust as an interface and front for acquiring the things that you need or desire?


If there is some ownership interest involved, that interest can be deposited into a trust.

I haven't thought about that, honestly. I am a sole proprietor contractor in California, so the business should probably be incorporated anyway. I really don't know enough about though. Besides, business has been steadily going away for several years now. I'm sad to say my family is in dire financial straits. I couldn't afford to incorporate even if I wanted to. Not now, anyway.

[shikamaru]

I haven't thought about that, honestly. I am a sole proprietor contractor in California, so the business should probably be incorporated anyway. I really don't know enough about though. Besides, business has been steadily going away for several years now. I'm sad to say my family is in dire financial straits. I couldn't afford to incorporate even if I wanted to. Not now, anyway.

Sole proprietor is the worst form of business to be.
The proprietor is personally and directly responsible and liable for the debts and obligations of the business.

I say separate the business from the individual.

[Treefarmer]

I haven't thought about that, honestly. I am a sole proprietor contractor in California, so the business should probably be incorporated anyway. I really don't know enough about though. Besides, business has been steadily going away for several years now. I'm sad to say my family is in dire financial straits. I couldn't afford to incorporate even if I wanted to. Not now, anyway.

Incorporating is not all that it is cracked up to be.

Some years ago DH and I, with 30 years of construction and contracting experience and college degrees of Bachelor of Architecture and Bachelor of Science in Environmental Design between us, decided to seek out the aid of a professional CPA who came highly recommended, in order to put our sub-contracting business on a perfectly secure and lawful foundation, so we would never have to worry about any tax problems.
The CPA was expensive, but we figured it would be worth it.

He gave us reading material that he had put together to advertise his services to contractors, and told us we needed to form an LLC.
So we did. First we bought two NOLO press books on LLCs, then got the STATE incorporation papers drawn up by the only attorney in the nearby town, got the TIN, the business checking account, and started to save all receipts for everything.
We had minutes for our "business meetings", did everything as instructed.

This went OK for 2 years, the tax bills were payable out of the money we took in, and although we never were able to get health or accident insurance or save any money or go on vacation, or buy a newer truck, we scraped by. The utility bills and student loan monthly payments got paid, I paid tithes in church and we had decent food, we kept the old trucks running, bought used tools, and worked our butts off thinking it would get better with time.
Our grand goal was to have my student loan paid off, health/accident insurance and to be able to visit my family and friends in Germany some day.

In the third year the tax return that the CPA prepared knocked our socks off.
Thousands of dollars in taxes, and we only had a few hundred dollars in the bank, plus the next quarterly estimated tax payment for the next year was due.

I asked the CPA why the taxes were so high and he mumbled something about how he didn't know why we had an LLC, since it only costs money and serves no purpose, due to it being only a "pass-through entity".
I reminded him that he had told us that we needed an LLC. He stared at me funny, like he didn't remember who I was and then excused himself saying he needed to go somewhere and was already late.

We had to go on a payment plan with the IRS, and I called the Tennessee State Department revenue office to see if they also had a payment plan.
The lady there said they didn't, then she paused and I heard keyboard clicking, and she said "I'm looking at your tax return now, and there's something wrong with it. Your CPA must not have prepared it correctly, because I can tell that you didn't have much income at all. You need to check this over."
I told her I didn't know how to check and had already paid for the paperwork and could not afford to pay again, and she assured me it would not be very difficult and she sent me the instructions and tax forms and said I still had time to submit a new return.

I followed the instructions, worked out the amounts and found that the CPA had added an extra zero to the amount. BIG difference between a few hundred and a few thousand dollars.
I sent it to her, she said I did it correctly, and we were able to pay the STATE tax.

So we thought it would be worth double checking the federal tax return too, since it was so much higher than the previous years, even though we had the same amount of business at the same pay scale as the previous years.
But whereas the STATE tax forms had been simple and straight forward, the IRS forms were the exact opposite.

So I did internet research and found much conflicting info. I tried to contact our CPA again, but we had already paid him and he refused to speak with us. I tried to find a low-income tax clinic to help me, but there were none.
Meanwhile, we were drowning in tax debt and interest. It became obvious that it would quickly become impossible to pay the quarterly payments and the previous bill. The harder we worked, the more taxes, the more indebted we became.
Then work got scarce in 2008, and contractors' checks started bouncing, because they were all having the same problems too.
We realized we could not afford to work anymore and dissolved the LLC.

Then I discovered Pete HENDRICKSON's website and saw all the evidence of "success" and it all seemed to make sense.
I could not see where we had ever conducted a "trade or business" with the US, or how we might be corporate officers of the US. Of course I was not aware of the trade or business scam, and that having a bank account is the trade or business nexus with the US.

To be continued...

[Keith Alan]

Way to leave me gripping my seat; I'm on the edge :-)

[EZrhythm]

The real rub here is that filling out the W-4 Form is a mandatory part of employment in America. If the employer fails to collect the W-4 Forms from all the employees there can be fines and other penalties for the employer.

Awesome fact #5683- "W" forms and "10XX" forms are called Information Returns and are REBUTTABLE!

Once properly rebutted they become VOID.

*They may be rebutted at the time of filing a return.
*They may be rebutted immediately after submitting one to an employer. The rebuttal may be issued to the employer and the tax agencies.

WIN-WIN-WIN situation!

[JohnnyCash]

What is your source? As my inquiry to the IRS has revealed: http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...-need-rebuttal
the IRS has no procedure in place for the payee (recipient) of a 1099-MISC to correct it. As a payee I refuse to accept the con, I refuse to believe the amounts reported are actually taxable income (I'm redeeming these check amounts into lawful money), and I guess that could be considered a form of rebuttal. My non-belief.

[EZrhythm]

EXCELLENT JC!

For those who hold a strong position then no rebuttal is necessary but it is an option for those who desire to go that route. For instance one who has filled out a W-4 to meet the satisfaction of an employer as their requirement for being hired and then decides to rebut the information in order to not have a deduction from the paycheck.

[JohnnyCash]

The CPA was expensive, but we figured it would be worth it.
..

In the third year the tax return that the CPA prepared knocked our socks off.
Thousands of dollars in taxes, and we only had a few hundred dollars in the bank, plus the next quarterly estimated tax payment for the next year was due.

I asked the CPA why the taxes were so high and he mumbled something about how he didn't know why we had an LLC, since it only costs money and serves no purpose, due to it being only a "pass-through entity".
I reminded him that he had told us that we needed an LLC. He stared at me funny, like he didn't remember who I was and then excused himself saying he needed to go somewhere and was already late.

suma bitch!

[Treefarmer]

...continuing:

Since we didn't know of any "trade or business" we were conducting with the US, we corrected the 1099-MISC information returns which we got from contractors for doing sub-contract work for them, claiming 0 income from a federally privileged trade or business. We also rebutted a few W-2s, claiming we had zero income from federally privileged activities.
We informed the Social Security Administration of the fact that we had no "income" (as we understood the term from reading its definition in the IRC) in those years, and their record has reflected zero income ever since then.

We promptly got refunds from the IRS and figured we must have done right, especially since to our knowledge we weren't engaging in any interstate commerce or contracting with any government agencies. We thought we were on the right track, even though most contractors around us were going bankrupt or leaving the state.

Two years later the IRS sent us notices of frivolous filing penalties, $10,000.00 per tax return, because of married filing jointly, for a total of $20,000.00.
The irony of it was that even in our best year, we never had that much net income.

We realized that contracting under a FIRST M LAST and a SSN, even when done through an LLC with a TIN, is financial suicide, and we would have been better off applying for food stamps, going fishing, and doing the other activities common to Appalachia.

It seems that the indigenous population of Appalachia learned this lesson during the New Deal in the 30s, and many people here never even try to work.
Living off welfare is considered an art-form, and I can appreciate why that is now.
I know some third generation welfare recipients whose only job skill is filling out government welfare applications. They have much better incomes and drive nicer cars than we do.

Since we had no way anymore of doing design and carpentry work without going deeper and deeper into tax debt, DH started to draw social security at the earliest opportunity and officially retired.
I started homesteading and bartering, and will try to live the rest of my life without a bank account. If I can find some way to replace my car with a horse, I will.

The contractors who still seem to be doing well around here are high Masons and they hire mostly Hispanic workers.
The few who aren't masonically connected are dirt poor, can't ever seem to get out of debt and are working themselves to death.

I have come to the conclusion that the "public policy" which the IRS is said to be enforcing includes putting small contractors and anyone who does freelance work (so-called "self-employed") out of business, in order to ruin the economy and herd people into working for big corporations in big cities, on W-4 contracts.
I believe this is for the purpose of making the one-world government easier to enforce on the masses, as it is being implemented by secret treaties with Rome (see UNIDROIT) and is almost complete now, judging by how there is nothing left of the old constitutional republic in the USA.

I didn't have to wear a tin foil hat to figure this all out, but contracting with a TIN for a few years sure helped.
Who feels it knows it.

[shikamaru]

I have come to the conclusion that the "public policy" which the IRS is said to be enforcing includes putting small contractors and anyone who does freelance work (so-called "self-employed") out of business, in order to ruin the economy and herd people into working for big corporations in big cities, on W-4 contracts.
I believe this is for the purpose of making the one-world government easier to enforce on the masses, as it is being implemented by secret treaties with Rome (see UNIDROIT) and is almost complete now, judging by how there is nothing left of the old constitutional republic in the USA.

This sounds like the policy the Babylonian and Egyptian kings implemented to centralize the people into the cities and draw them out of the hinterlands. I'm certain the Old Testament mentions this.

[David Merrill]

...continuing:

...I have come to the conclusion that the "public policy" which the IRS is said to be enforcing includes putting small contractors and anyone who does freelance work (so-called "self-employed") out of business, in order to ruin the economy and herd people into working for big corporations in big cities, on W-4 contracts.

I believe this is for the purpose of making the one-world government easier to enforce on the masses, as it is being implemented by secret treaties with Rome (see UNIDROIT) and is almost complete now, judging by how there is nothing left of the old constitutional republic in the USA.

I didn't have to wear a tin foil hat to figure this all out, but contracting with a TIN for a few years sure helped.
Who feels it knows it.

My take on the same scenario is neglected here lately on StSC - I called it A-China-Ca. I still collect the BBC World News reports about Delivering Iran to China. Of course the Patroons of Manhattan and the Grand Master Robert LIVINGSTON giving WASHINGTON his oath on the porch of the NY Grand Lodge is playing a big role in the overall plan of municipal unification.

Something that comes into play are the Ghost Cities of China. America is the main target for labor I am sure but I think it likely there will be cities dedicated to other languages. That is the model for world production already in place - for example there is a city in China dedicated to the manufacture of zippers. Even if your pants are made in the USA it is likely that your zipper was bought from this city in China.

So my take is that as the Information Highway and international commuting develops into the world akin to one big global village the adoption of international municipal policy has become inevitable. Interestingly that manifestation first became prominent in America when I was born:

I say that is interesting as the Patroons, my heritage and perpetual inheritance is prominently mentioned in this 1995 Americans' Bulletin article.

http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_METROchapter1.pdf

http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_METROchapter2.pdf

http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_METROchapter3.pdf

This weekend I am awaiting delivery of a gift copy of Jo HINDMAN's Terrible 1313 Revisited. I once borrowed her The Metrocrats from a former state senator's library.

So your perceptions Treefarmer are quite agreeable. The time will come I believe when people are offered instead of a free government dole to jump on a plane to China on a two-year contract for $100K to work away making zippers, glasses frames or shoelaces.


Regards,

David Merrill.