DL was NOT provided or used as ID

[allodial]

#1 - What documents? Could you provide a copy?

#2 - Runs what through the system? Your true name (First - Middle), name on documents?

#3 - Can you keep driving with an expired license? - Absolutely. Will the outcome always be the same as you experienced? It's possible but not likely across the board although you may have solid standing with your paperwork with certain agencies such as the one you ran in to. They may have been fibbing about the system being down or they weren't fibbing (most likely as I actually hear "system is down" on occasion) and used that as an excuse to let you go...not running your true name through if in fact that is what you provided.

* I state these things having much experienced with stops.

AFAIK you can continue "driving" if you surrender your license. If you have reservations concerning your license you can make them known to the DMV or whatever it is otherwise they might regard you to be fully agreeable to "the contract". I traveled with a motorist competency card, once got bothered for no reason by a bored cop, two more showed up and a duty officer (many stripes) he told them to stop bothering me and told the one to give me an escort because I wasn't sure where a certain location was. Didn't provide any SSN or "State" ID. Also, as remains true to this day, wasn't a resident of that State at the time or of any of the 50 States.

[xparte]

Holding the expired DL is Travelling Dead as with respect to persons all are dead in law if the paper or D.L. is? or has? expired? only my competency is permitted or left to drive or travel whats the a valid safety issue are we still competent without respect to persons what validation do i need to renew my true name with myself without respect for persons my name appears on DL or it does,nt if every thing expires the driving test is void of a competent identification

[AllanNR]

#1 - What documents? Could you provide a copy?

#2 - Runs what through the system? Your true name (First - Middle), name on documents?

#3 - Can you keep driving with an expired license? - Absolutely. Will the outcome always be the same as you experienced? It's possible but not likely across the board although you may have solid standing with your paperwork with certain agencies such as the one you ran in to. They may have been fibbing about the system being down or they weren't fibbing (most likely as I actually hear "system is down" on occasion) and used that as an excuse to let you go...not running your true name through if in fact that is what you provided.

* I state these things having much experienced with stops.

DL, registration, insurance and I redeem LM

[EZrhythm]

I got pulled over yesterday for speeding. Officer approached and waited while I gathered my documents.

... ... ...and walks back to run me through the system.

question: can I keep driving with an expired licence and just keep presenting it as proof of competence?

#1 - What documents? Could you provide a copy?

#2 - Runs what through the system? Your true name (First - Middle), name on documents?

#3 - Can you keep driving with an expired license? - Absolutely. Will the outcome always be the same as you experienced? It's possible but not likely across the board although you may have solid standing with your paperwork with certain agencies such as the one you ran in to. They may have been fibbing about the system being down or they weren't fibbing (most likely as I actually hear "system is down" on occasion) and used that as an excuse to let you go...not running your true name through if in fact that is what you provided.

* I state these things having much experienced with stops.

[Chex]

The catholic encyclopedia will tell you why.without respect to persons

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/453

[AllanNR]

I have my own account to add to this ongoing saga.

I got pulled over yesterday for speeding. Officer approached and waited while I gathered my documents. I noticed my licence had JUST expired last month on the 31st but I presented it anyway and said very loudly and clearly.
" I am not presenting this as identification, only to show competence", he replied "but this is your identifica...." to which I smiled at him and basically said whatever with a shrug of my shoulders. He says ok in a muted tone and walks back to run me through the system. 20 minutes later a patrol sergeant shows up and I say to myself "whichever way this goes this should get interesting". I see him poked into his patrolmans side window and then sticking his head out kinda giving me a mean look in the rearview to which I YAWN. PS walks over and says in a very polite tone "excuse me sir did you know your licence has expired" I replied "I JUST saw that now when I presented it". "Ok thank you" and walks away. 20 minutes later the patrolman walks back over with all my papers and nothing else. "I apologize for taking up your time and inconveniencing you sir" "we are having a computer glitch at the moment so were gonna let you go" " my sergeant is not happy about it". I smile and say thank you and actually share a laugh with the patrolman about safe driving and off I GO.

question: can I keep driving with an expired licence and just keep presenting it as proof of competence?

"Individual" - what is the Federal definition of "individual"?


I understand the concept that the so-called "federal gov't" tried to propagate in the above Senate Doc #43 but it rests on the definition of the word "individual." Paul Andrew Mitchell's work explains with cited material why the "federal gov't's" use of the term "individual" circles back to the definition of small "c" "citizen"...meaning "federal citizen." For those interested in Mitchell's work simply google "supreme law dot org."

The above post also mentions that Paul Andrew Mitchell has been "indicted for obstruction of justice." Where is this written? I would like to know how this information was gathered.

Thanks,

Sam

ownership and property are two different things

non-living entities can hold "titles" (dead paper) in ownership; only man can make a claim (living voice) to property

[allodial]

Make copies, take pics.

The birth certificate afaik = State property. The name on the birth certificate = State property.

Afaik, private property (de jure) is not "in this State".

[EZrhythm]

Here's the thing though: what about when people reserve rights by altering (crossing out, rewriting) DL documents at the DMV -- aren't those docs their property too?

Not until you hand the document back to them with any desired edits.

[EZrhythm]

Isn't that altering someone else's document?

No since the whole license is an agreement that you have created. The physical license card belongs to the "STATE OF..." under the terms of the agreement but the agreement itself is the signor's. A signor may alter an agreement at any time and the alterations go into effect immediately upon NOTICE. Notice = knowledge of the communication.
If one desired they could place 'See attached" on the signature line and then carry the attachment with them.
Another effective method is to form a separate NOTICE, record the notice in a public forum, issue a certified copy to the DMV and then carrying one with you.

[salsero]

[Moxie]

not in your name then whose is it.

If lawful money is in your name than whose is it?

Ahhhh, I missed that! Thanks!

[Chex]

Here's the thing though: aren't those docs their property too?

not in your name then whose is it.

If lawful money is in your name than whose is it?

[Moxie]

Isn't that altering someone else's document?

Here's the thing though: what about when people reserve rights by altering (crossing out, rewriting) DL documents at the DMV -- aren't those docs their property too?