Pete HENDRICKSON's Lost Horizons - Solutions?

[Treefarmer]

Might I suggest CAUTION in considering Team Law. I don't know what they are now promoting, but Eric Madsen's promotion of filing 1041 in treating the SSN as a trust account back in the late 90's is causing trouble. See

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Examples-of-Abusive-Tax-Schemes-Fiscal-Year-2013

and drill down to Former Illinois Town Supervisor Sentenced for Tax Fraud. I know of another who's brother was caught up in this too.

Madsen's advice led to difficulty for me, which led me to PH's CtC. The statutory logic I find to be quite clean. My concern is hearing stories that people are running into trouble in the back end. Further, I went some time with no presumption and no need to file. Now, with this new 1099-K, radar is back on and the seed was sown, now reaping in the form of a NtcO'Lvy. Can you hear the sucking sound? I have two years to deal with and don't wish to wait much longer for fear of falling deeper into a $h!thole! I wish to stop the bleeding, but eating the red pill makes it very difficult to just throw up my hands. However, I have some precious cargo to lose now that I did not have in the earlier years.

Here is what I wish to know. In learning the Lesson Plan at StSClub, what might one form as an expectation to be able to accomplish through the use of your information?

I read through this thread so far with attachments. Help me understand the benefit of the trust and LOR when they approach from the living man, and yet my understanding is that the strawman is the entity under irs attack.

Further, have any of you studied creditorsincommerce.com?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Hello TMI, welcome to the forum.

DH and I also got burned by dabbling with Pete H's CtC, and it cost us lots of time and money.
We did some experimenting, because we have little to loose and no dependents.

The Libel of Review is a great learning experience for those of us who never learned to contract properly, but the i r s completely ignores it, as it issues from living men and women, not PERSONS, which is all they deal with. They do not perceive live humans.

After experimenting with Lawful Money and tax returns, I came to the following conclusion:
When a man/woman signs a W-4 or gives an SSN to receive a 1099, for the purpose of getting paid in bank checks, which are then deposited or cashed at a bank where said man/woman has a PERSONAL or BUSINESS bank account, tied to an SSN or TIN, that man/woman's PERSON is then considered to be engaging in a "trade or business" with the UNITED STATES and is a TAXPAYER, obligated to file INCOME TAX RETURNS with the i r s.

Or in other words, anyone getting paid via bank checks or direct deposits is a slave who has no rights or freedoms whatsoever, a mere "human resource" of the bankers.

IMO, the only real Lawful Money there is is gold and silver coin or other precious commodities with intrinsic value, and in desperate times FRNs in the form of cash can also be used as Lawful Money, IF they are not going through a bank account.

The two bankers I've conversed with on this topic both said that 12 USC 411 has nothing to do with banking or income taxes.

I still use the LM verbiage recommended here on StSC on the back of checks, but I don't have a bank account anymore.
The i r s lost interest in me after I gave up PERSONAL banking.
I consider all checks made out to my PERSON to be taxable income because they issue from a US bank to a US PERSON (slave), but I never get high enough amounts in any given tax year to have to file a return.

There are other members here who do not at all agree with my assessment of the situation, but these are my personal conclusions, based on my personal experiences.

Others have other experiences, based on their own circumstances.
I believe that taking "lawful money deductions" on i r s tax return filings, while being engaged in banking as a US PERSON will ultimately result in frivolous filing penalties, just like CtC filings did after some years of seeming success.

This is my 2 cents worth.

[David Merrill]

Thank you Treefarmer;


Being in the middle of a high number of suitors who have filed the Libel of Review and gone through the Lesson Plan I find your perspective and perceptions agreeable. I get a statistical gist that people who become suitors from Pete's CtC drag a residual attachment to private credit. Another factor seems to be being in the financial industry - as it is endorsement by trade.

I reconcile this to your experience in that a bank account may be assigned like a financial endeavor for profit. Evidence of being a state bank so to speak. However the remedy is for state banks so to me, the baggage comes from Pete's CtC. I stretch to make these correlations make sense though. I have a great memory for these details and categorize events as I hear of them.

[EZrhythm]

Now, with this new 1099-K, radar is back on and the seed was sown, now reaping in the form of a NtcO'Lvy.

1099's are information returns that are REBUTTABLE!

http://freedom-school.com/citizenship/corrected-info-return-letter.doc

[David Merrill]

The two bankers I've conversed with on this topic both said that 12 USC 411 has nothing to do with banking or income taxes.

This comment lingered. I read it as a commentary on either banker ignorance or obfuscation. Title 12 of the USC is titled Banks and Banking.

[EZrhythm]

This comment lingered. I read it as a commentary on either banker ignorance or obfuscation. Title 12 of the USC is titled Banks and Banking.

Oooo, that's CLASSIC!

[Treefarmer]

This comment lingered. I read it as a commentary on either banker ignorance or obfuscation. Title 12 of the USC is titled Banks and Banking.

Yes, that's the central irony of it all, I'm glad you pointed this out David.
This is more evidence that logic and reason have no place in the beast power structure.

At the same bank where the manager told me that 12 USC 411 has nothing to do with banking, a teller told me that an SSN is not at all a TIN and does not serve the same function, even though the bank document which I was filling out, over which we were having this conversation, stated above the box in question: "enter Social Security number (TIN) here".

This is the reality we have to live with.
This is why I closed my last bank account.
I like logic and reason, and this illogical and un-reasonable banking system is repugnant to my way of thinking, besides being in transgression of Yehovah Elohim's Law of Liberty.

[David Merrill]

Thanks again Treefarmer! I wanted a link to the entire passage:

"The two bankers I've conversed with on this topic both said that 12 USC 411 has nothing to do with banking or income taxes." This comment lingered. I read it as a commentary on either banker ignorance or obfuscation. Title 12 of the USC is titled Banks and Banking.

Yes, that's the central irony of it all, I'm glad you pointed this out David.
This is more evidence that logic and reason have no place in the beast power structure.

At the same bank where the manager told me that 12 USC 411 has nothing to do with banking, a teller told me that an SSN is not at all a TIN and does not serve the same function, even though the bank document which I was filling out, over which we were having this conversation, stated above the box in question: "enter Social Security number (TIN) here".

This is the reality we have to live with.
This is why I closed my last bank account.
I like logic and reason, and this illogical and un-reasonable banking system is repugnant to my way of thinking, besides being in transgression of Yehovah Elohim's Law of Liberty.

[JohnnyCash]

What do they say? Never trust a banker. Of course the SSN is a TIN, and an EIN (employer identification number) is a TIN too.

I was talking with a relative of my wife's over vacation, a retired DC attorney, about how I discovered the hoax of our monetary system a few years back. How the bank monetized my signature to create new currency they then loaned me, how our currency is no longer backed by anything real, etcetera. I don't recall the exact words but his immediate reaction was like "of course the banks do that, I learned that long ago, this is how modern economies run." I don't think he was trying to BS me (suppose anything is possible); in his mind it was just perfectly normal.

[David Merrill]

What do they say? Never trust a banker. Of course the SSN is a TIN, and an EIN (employer identification number) is a TIN too.

I was talking with a relative of my wife's over vacation, a retired DC attorney, about how I discovered the hoax of our monetary system a few years back. How the bank monetized my signature to create new currency they then loaned me, how our currency is no longer backed by anything real, etcetera. I don't recall the exact words but his immediate reaction was like "of course the banks do that, I learned that long ago, this is how modern economies run." I don't think he was trying to BS me (suppose anything is possible); in his mind it was just perfectly normal.

I do not buy that the SSN is the TIN. When you write it into a form, where the TIN goes and you think that you write in the SSN, then you create that illusion...

[TMI]

So nothing works...

So from what I see, there really is nothing that works effectively at this time when it comes to earning a living and not having to file and pay the machine. As I interpret things, this is largely due to the fact that we generally in one way or another have been forced to operate with the strawman front, and since we use the FRN private credit and no entity recognizes or honors 12-411 redemption, nor do they recognize the private setoff and settlement in the public, one is incessantly pursued to PAY UP!

Yes, you can mow lawns or do something else that keeps you in the cash arena and not create income presumptions (information returns) and be left alone. However, if one wishes to do anything that might involve collecting earning using credit cards or other means of getting ahead...forget it, yes?

[Treefarmer]

So from what I see, there really is nothing that works effectively at this time when it comes to earning a living and not having to file and pay the machine. As I interpret things, this is largely due to the fact that we generally in one way or another have been forced to operate with the strawman front, and since we use the FRN private credit and no entity recognizes or honors 12-411 redemption, nor do they recognize the private setoff and settlement in the public, one is incessantly pursued to PAY UP!

Yes, you can mow lawns or do something else that keeps you in the cash arena and not create income presumptions (information returns) and be left alone. However, if one wishes to do anything that might involve collecting earning using credit cards or other means of getting ahead...forget it, yes?

In a nutshell, yes.

[David Merrill]

So from what I see, there really is nothing that works effectively at this time when it comes to earning a living and not having to file and pay the machine. As I interpret things, this is largely due to the fact that we generally in one way or another have been forced to operate with the strawman front, and since we use the FRN private credit and no entity recognizes or honors 12-411 redemption, nor do they recognize the private setoff and settlement in the public, one is incessantly pursued to PAY UP!

Yes, you can mow lawns or do something else that keeps you in the cash arena and not create income presumptions (information returns) and be left alone. However, if one wishes to do anything that might involve collecting earning using credit cards or other means of getting ahead...forget it, yes?

I am witness to many people with bank accounts who are getting full income tax refunds. Believe it or not we consider it a great success story whenever a suitor has two or more years of redeeming lawful money refunds applied to back taxes. This demonstrates contemplation by the IRS and its attorneys quite convincingly. They evaluate the refund quite carefully and then apply it against past liabilities.

It is blatant admission that our interpretation of making this demand is correct:


They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...


We do have some problems however, mainly with three suitors who are all in the financial markets - financial advisers and a banker working in International Settlements for a major international bank. Otherwise like with Treefarmer there are several suitors who are recovering Pete victims dealing with past tax liabilities and fairly innocuous FrivPens that are consistently managed, mostly by Refusal for Cause.

[JohnnyCash]

I can testify that redeeming lawful money works. As learned from David, I've been doing it for years, received a full IRS refund in 2008 and have no IRS issues.

Recently I have noticed very little activity from the agent provocateurs at other freedom-oriented sites, but observe they remain quite active here. This would elevate SavingToSuitorsClub.net to the premier site on the internet for freedom, tax honesty & all things sovereign.

And if any quatlosers are here I observe they are not using their same usernames. This seems to say they prefer anonymity, that they realize they would likely lose any argument based on facts, law & logic and such loss would reflect poorly on them and their brand. In other words, they can't bring it. They've admitted loss from the get-go.

I have observed the agents can be grouped into categories:

THE COMPLICATOR
This persona will take a fairly simple concept and add revisions to the point of complication. The purpose is probably to render it ineffective, or perhaps make it difficult to comprehend.

THE DEMORALIZER
The attitude here is nothing works; it's hopeless, just give up. If remedy can be stopped by thought patterns then here is your clue. We suitors are experiencing a 90 to 100% victory over the IRS depending on the definition of success.

THE DISTRACTOR
This one likes long, rambling posts often full of statutory mish-mash like 3141(a) wages and so forth. The point here is probably just to have seekers chase their tails on fools errands.

THE DUMMY
This one is usually a brief I don't understand, can you explain it all ... in detail ... step-by-step? Of course not everyone asking for explanation is an agent which makes this one hard to ferret out. I'm uncertain what the purpose is here. Maybe just to waste the respondent's time or to ascertain their level of understanding ... for further targeting by the Odgen campus(?)

THE MIMIC
This one just mimics what they've learned here, sometimes answering another agent. Not sure of the point. Maybe just to establish cred to then later come in to slur remedy.

THE RIDICULER
This one is easily spotted - he thinks you're all paranoid nut cases. I don't think we've had any here since JesseJames.

[David Merrill]

Whenever anybody was pushing 1099 stuff I would always request they select the Application from the Instructions they were utilizing.

[David Merrill]

Whenever anybody was pushing 1099 stuff I would always request they select the Application from the Instructions they were utilizing.