Adventures in land ownership

[Treefarmer]

If you are on North Carolina, I can help you because I have done extensive research. The BLM cannot help you for the original 13.

I have the Metes and Bounds for the North Carolina and the Metes and Bounds for Wake County. Boundaries are important as these go to survey.

Does that survey which you have include the area of North Carolina which later became the eastern part of Tennessee?

[Michael Joseph]

Does that survey which you have include the area of North Carolina which later became the eastern part of Tennessee?

If you need the metes and bounds for Tennessee, I can hook that up.

Answer: no

[Treefarmer]

If you need the metes and bounds for Tennessee, I can hook that up.

Answer: no

Sure, hook me up.
Thank you Michael Joseph.

[motla68]

I was looking for the original land grants for Wake County. I found them filed in a library on mclenburg county. I admit i have not read those sources. I mean looking thru those archives was like a needle in haystack. The curator would not let me in some rooms - sensitive State information - you know.

There is a book in wake county library I think called North Carolina History 1583, it shows some of the land grant information for north carolina, wake county was not formed until later, I think at one time it was part of Johnston County and it stretched all the way up to oxford.
My buddy who has a camp near North Wilkesboro has some good references to all that stuff too, I will ask him and get back with you.

[allodial]

...giveaway that this contract maintains the statutory status of the contract. Title insurance is only recommended in such contracts in lieu of an abstract of title. Whenever you agree to such a contractual stipulation, you operate within the statutory realm.

No surprise. When it comes to real estate, an attorney will likely draft a contract dealing with objects/subjects in his 'reality'--as in what he is comfortable with (why expect otherwise?).

If one knows who one is (i.e. the "true you" vs "legal entity") its not that difficult. If one is seeking allodial/full title--OK... First one might want to get the statutory entity that has a claim ("the seller") to vacate its claim (Warranty Deed or Warranty & Quitclaim Deed) [the Real Estate Sales Agreement outlines the terms/conditions/consideration of doing so right?). After one does that, one can still do a lis pendens and/or quiet title proceeding. If one gets the gist of this paragraph then it would be obvious that at times it might be best to go in two stages that logically ought to follow one after the other.

The "real estate purchase process" seems complicated probably because it was made complicated and the standard contract presumes not only mortgage but "residential sale/purchase" rather than private sale/purchase. Some of the chub is for the protection of a bank providing a mortgage. It might be helpful to become skilled in distinguishing just what is key in the process for protecting a purchaser vs what is for a bank vs what is for protecting a seller. An honest purchaser would likely wish to see to it that a win-win situation results.

So one can simply have a trust in the box (with an address like 1000 House Street, New York, New York 12345" and then after getting the warranty deed or the like proceeding to perfect a higher claim to than the trust using true name or some other strategy or method.

Apart from the presumption of mortgage or FANNIE MAN/FHA/HUD involvument and apart from the statutory notices (such as those about lead or environmental hazards) the reason a real estate contract or purchase process might seem or be held to be complicated might be because of lack of trust or safeguard pertinent to using an escrow company (i.e. being able to pay the seller without the seller taking your money without making out the warranty deed--there are obvious ways to do this without an escrow company).

Key factors to consider in a cash sale (and oddly it can be a challenge to find solid information on a cash sale): purchase price (that they will take U.S. currency, ping bong balls or the like), an agreement to sell, when title passes, whether there will be a down payment, how/when/where title will pass, how/when/where possession will pass, what personalty (i.e. non fixture stuff such as beds or a TV or nice rug) will be sold, maintaining evidence.

The "standard agreement" is typically crafted by attorneys and finds its 'home' in "legal land", "Residentia" or "Publica".

As typical I would direct folks that really want remedy/answers to one or more good books and one of the best law books on the topic that is over and above the pop-bookstore-fastfood-variety is:


Understanding Modern Real Estate Transactions, Second Edition [Paperback]
Jr. Alex M. Johnson (Author) (Amazon->) http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-...6718778&sr=8-7.

To reiterate: if one is seeking private or allodial title, a two-stage process might be best: (1) using a legal entity in the State/County to 'clear/settle' the "property claim"--cash sale. Then (2) after that taking it out of the box.

As for title insurance: it might be suffice to have a seller produce their current title insurance certificate with the abstract of title they got from their title company and then add that to your evidence pile (perhaps certified copies?). Also, getting a title search, an abstract of title and subsequently a title commitment (a title company saying "Based on our title search or other information we have, we will provide you title insurance.") rather than getting title insurance can be helpful for putting the property back up for 'standard sale'. (I might have a title search done, get copies of the seller's title paperwork and get a title company to write out a title commitment but NOT get title insurance--as in creating evidence in my favor).

Clearly: take away mortgage verbiage, title companies involvement or appraisal companies expecting $$$, its possible to greatly see how to simplify a 'real estate' transaction.

P.S. It is likely that the typical sale of a "parcels" is not sale of dirt and soil but of a 'right of occupation' or something of those lines.

"Cherokees didn't have written records"

Related: Pedis possessio, a book titled "Conquest By Law" (land fraud, deception conspiracy exposed even to the extent of hiding court cases).

http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Law-D...6720295&sr=8-1

[Treefarmer]

No surprise. When it comes to real estate, an attorney will likely draft a contract dealing with objects/subjects in his 'reality'--as in what he is comfortable with (why expect otherwise?).

If one knows who one is (i.e. the "true you" vs "legal entity") its not that difficult. If one is seeking allodial/full title--OK... First one might want to get the statutory entity that has a claim ("the seller") to vacate its claim (Warranty Deed or Warranty & Quitclaim Deed) [the Real Estate Sales Agreement outlines the terms/conditions/consideration of doing so right?). After one does that, one can still do a lis pendens and/or quiet title proceeding. If one gets the gist of this paragraph then it would be obvious that at times it might be best to go in two stages that logically ought to follow one after the other.

The "real estate purchase process" seems complicated probably because it was made complicated and the standard contract presumes not only mortgage but "residential sale/purchase" rather than private sale/purchase. Some of the chub is for the protection of a bank providing a mortgage. It might be helpful to become skilled in distinguishing just what is key in the process for protecting a purchaser vs what is for a bank vs what is for protecting a seller. An honest purchaser would likely wish to see to it that a win-win situation results.

So one can simply have a trust in the box (with an address like 1000 House Street, New York, New York 12345" and then after getting the warranty deed or the like proceeding to perfect a higher claim to than the trust using true name or some other strategy or method.

Apart from the presumption of mortgage or FANNIE MAN/FHA/HUD involvument and apart from the statutory notices (such as those about lead or environmental hazards) the reason a real estate contract or purchase process might seem or be held to be complicated might be because of lack of trust or safeguard pertinent to using an escrow company (i.e. being able to pay the seller without the seller taking your money without making out the warranty deed--there are obvious ways to do this without an escrow company).

Key factors to consider in a cash sale (and oddly it can be a challenge to find solid information on a cash sale): purchase price (that they will take U.S. currency, ping bong balls or the like), an agreement to sell, when title passes, whether there will be a down payment, how/when/where title will pass, how/when/where possession will pass, what personalty (i.e. non fixture stuff such as beds or a TV or nice rug) will be sold, maintaining evidence.

The "standard agreement" is typically crafted by attorneys and finds its 'home' in "legal land", "Residentia" or "Publica".

As typical I would direct folks that really want remedy/answers to one or more good books and one of the best law books on the topic that is over and above the pop-bookstore-fastfood-variety is:


Understanding Modern Real Estate Transactions, Second Edition [Paperback]
Jr. Alex M. Johnson (Author) (Amazon->) http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-...6718778&sr=8-7.

To reiterate: if one is seeking private or allodial title, a two-stage process might be best: (1) using a legal entity in the State/County to 'clear/settle' the "property claim"--cash sale. Then (2) after that taking it out of the box.

As for title insurance: it might be suffice to have a seller produce their current title insurance certificate with the abstract of title they got from their title company and then add that to your evidence pile (perhaps certified copies?). Also, getting a title search, an abstract of title and subsequently a title commitment (a title company saying "Based on our title search or other information we have, we will provide you title insurance.") rather than getting title insurance can be helpful for putting the property back up for 'standard sale'. (I might have a title search done, get copies of the seller's title paperwork and get a title company to write out a title commitment but NOT get title insurance--as in creating evidence in my favor).

Clearly: take away mortgage verbiage, title companies involvement or appraisal companies expecting $$$, its possible to greatly see how to simplify a 'real estate' transaction.

P.S. It is likely that the typical sale of a "parcels" is not sale of dirt and soil but of a 'right of occupation' or something of those lines.



Related: Pedis possessio, a book titled "Conquest By Law" (land fraud, deception conspiracy exposed even to the extent of hiding court cases).

http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Law-D...6720295&sr=8-1

Thank you allodial.
Are you the "allodial" from SJC?
Welcome to StSC.

That book "Conquest by Law" looks really interesting; I went ahead and ordered it from Amazon.

I'm hoping to discover a reasonably hassle-free method whereby acres of land can be owned by human beings, subject only to the true landlord, the Lord of Hosts, Creator of the Universe.

That's the reason I'm pursuing this thread.
I'm moving slowly on account of gardening and tourist season right now.

My next post will be on Tennessee's greenbelt classification.

Happy Memorial Day

[allodial]

Thank you allodial.
Are you the "allodial" from SJC?
Welcome to StSC.

That book "Conquest by Law" looks really interesting; I went ahead and ordered it from Amazon.

I'm hoping to discover a reasonably hassle-free method whereby acres of land can be owned by human beings, subject only to the true landlord, the Lord of Hosts, Creator of the Universe.

That's the reason I'm pursuing this thread.
I'm moving slowly on account of gardening and tourist season right now.

My next post will be on Tennessee's greenbelt classification.

Happy Memorial Day

Between the lines, the book actually exposes that the 'conquest of North America' was a sham and exposes that the British, Spanish and French were severely limited--that the coverup of caselaw (Jackson) by the US was perhaps to protect real estate investor interests.

[Treefarmer]

During the mid-nineties the property taxes still seemed affordable here,
being around $200.00 per year.
I felt like it was a fair deal, because the County has a couple of trash dump sites where one can dump landfill trash, including used motor oil and recyclable metals, during business hours 5 days a week. We generate 2 to 3 bags of landfill trash every two months which we dump there.

But then between 1999 and 2002 the tax bill increased every year even though the County tax assessor claimed that tax rates had stayed the same.
I asked him why my tax bill kept going up and he said it was due to increased assessment value and land improvements I had made, like building sheds and a cabin.
I challenged the newly assessed value and he asked me what value I would like for my land to be assessed at, and I named an amount that seemed reasonable to me at the time.
Still, the tax burden soon increased to more than I could handle as a homesteader.

Someone then told me about the "Greenbelt Law":


When I visited the tax assessor's office to find out more about the program the office staff was so helpful that I got the uneasy feeling they were being too helpful.
As in "there's always free cheese in a mouse trap".
The Assessor himself loaned me his cell phone so I could call a licensed forester on the spot and get started on the program right away in order to get the lower tax bill that year.
After talking on the phone with the forester about drawing up a forest management plan, I still could not figure out if it was a trap or not, so I signed an application for it.

Even though I had to pay for the forest management plan, I saved money on the first tax bill under the greenbelt program, and the bills have been about a third of what they would otherwise be in all the years since then.

And that's how I became a treefarmer.
My property taxes are still under $250.00 per year, which is still a fair deal because I dump 2 to 3 bags of landfill trash every other month at the County "Convenience Center" as it is euphemistically called.

Many other Land Deed holders (I hesitate to say land owners since we must pay yearly tribute to keep "our" land) have joined the program in the last few years. I recently read an article in the local paper which talked about the "lost revenue" to the State of Tennessee due to the lower property taxes under the Greenbelt assessment.

Perhaps this is why certain revenue agents have seen themselves forced to collect revenue in other ways lately, but I'm only speculating on this and I don't know if there is a connection with lost property tax revenue.
Revenue link 2
Revenue link 3
Revenue link 4

Perhaps it is time to look at a CAFR and see what's really going on with tax revenue around here.

[shikamaru]

As in "there's always free cheese in a mouse trap".

I frequently ask myself "Where is the wheelbarrow?"

My bank wanted to give me a choice of two nifty options to move my account to. Upon presentment, my first question was, "Okay ... where is the wheelbarrow?"

I read further. There is a $10 monthly account fee (whereas today I pay $0 in fees). I found the wheelbarrow! Consequently, I will have to decline both offers.

If interested, I will relay the wheelbarrow story as told to me from George Gordon .

Perhaps it is time to look at a CAFR and see what's really going on with tax revenue around here.

If you need more information on CAFR, look no further than Walter Burien and Rod Class.

Walter Burien was the person who exposed CAFRs to me.

Rod Class claims the real party of interest in court cases is the IMF.
I'm confident you will find both gentlemen of great interest.

[Treefarmer]

I frequently ask myself "Where is the wheelbarrow?"

My bank wanted to give me a choice of two nifty options to move my account to. Upon presentment, my first question was, "Okay ... where is the wheelbarrow?"

I read further. There is a $10 monthly account fee (whereas today I pay $0 in fees). I found the wheelbarrow! Consequently, I will have to decline both offers.

If interested, I will relay the wheelbarrow story as told to me from George Gordon .



If you need more information on CAFR, look no further than Walter Burien and Rod Class.

Walter Burien was the person who exposed CAFRs to me.

Rod Class claims the real party of interest in court cases is the IMF.
I'm confident you will find both gentlemen of great interest.

Yes, Walter Burien was one of my first exposures to CAFR too. The other one was CAFRman.

[Reigne]

HI everyone,
I know DM from sui juris & am recognizing a few others from there.
I joined today & visited a number of threads, and decided to pop in real quick to say a big thank you for the info supplied in this thread.

I also wanted to let ya'll know I have the pdf version of "Land Surveys and Titles" by Charles Claudius Kagey (one of the recommended books). I don't see a place here to attach it (long day, could be right in front of me LOL). So if you want it please feel free to contact me (I enabled receiving messages here).

[Richard Earl]

HI everyone,
I know DM from sui juris & am recognizing a few others from there.
I joined today & visited a number of threads, and decided to pop in real quick to say a big thank you for the info supplied in this thread.

I also wanted to let ya'll know I have the pdf version of "Land Surveys and Titles" by Charles Claudius Kagey (one of the recommended books). I don't see a place here to attach it (long day, could be right in front of me LOL). So if you want it please feel free to contact me (I enabled receiving messages here).

Welcome to the forums. My previous forum nickname was Sivana. Good to see you here!

[Treefarmer]

HI everyone,
I know DM from sui juris & am recognizing a few others from there.
I joined today & visited a number of threads, and decided to pop in real quick to say a big thank you for the info supplied in this thread.

I also wanted to let ya'll know I have the pdf version of "Land Surveys and Titles" by Charles Claudius Kagey (one of the recommended books). I don't see a place here to attach it (long day, could be right in front of me LOL). So if you want it please feel free to contact me (I enabled receiving messages here).

Hi there April Reigne.
Welcome to StSC.
You should be able to use the Downloads button at the top of the page to post your PDF file.
I would really like to take a look at that book.
Thank you for contributing to the learning experience.

Bright blessings

[Reigne]

Thanks for the welcome(s) and the info on where to upload docs.

I attempted to upload the pdf but got this message: Your file of 7.28 MB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 5.00 MB for this filetype.
So I guess the best way to get it is to just contact me.

However, I went through my pc to see what else may be useful here, and am uploading "States Metes & Bounds" (a compilation of the states boundaries) which I obtained over a year ago. Enjoy!

Update: I have also uploaded "Allodial Title Via Land Patent" aka 'The Final Solution To Property Tax'.

[Trust Guy]

Greetings Reigne , Welcome here .

Try http://www.myfreefilehosting.com/ . Files up to 100 MB . No sign up .No e-mail addy need be given . Just accept terms of use , add tags , upload and grab the URL to share when done . You’re all set .

Be Well , TG